Often times we see “success” and think that it was “overnight”. We forget that most of the business success we see, was a slow and steady progression of mistakes, of learning. Three or more steps forward and 1 step backward. We forget it was many lonely nights of tears and misery until the breakthrough happened.  This is the case of Tyler Perry, Casey Neistat, Dave Ramsey, Jim McCann of 1800 Flowers, Rebecca Minkoff and so many others.

I’ve been blessed to have some level of success and I want to remind everyone that this was a 20+ year journey of being fired from the United Nations. Having a child while I was barely out of being a teenager. Going to school to get my bachelor’s degree while working a full-time job. Living in a basement apartment on a small foldable cot.

In this interview, Alisa Gumbs, managing editor of Black Enterprise unpacks this 20 year “overnight success” for the Black Elevate series.

(Transcription)

Alisa Gumbs:

The managing editor of Black Enterprise. And welcome to Elevate Black Inc. empowered by Fifth Third Bank.

Alisa Gumbs:

In this podcast series, we help you find new ways to grow your business through our interviews with innovative entrepreneurs and business leaders. In each episode, they share their unique journeys and offer their strategies on how you can pivot, perform, and profit in any environment.

Alisa Gumbs:

This week, we talk with Ramon Ray the founder of smarthustle.com, a media company that inspires and educates small business owners and the very first entrepreneur in residence at Oracle NetSuite. Ramon is a leading small business expert, a bestselling author, an in demand speaker, all while being a successful entrepreneur himself, having started four businesses and sold two of them.

Alisa Gumbs:

In my conversation today I discuss with him the essential advice he shares with thousands of entrepreneurs a year. How to build a brand that will benefit your business? And why if you’re not having fun, you might be doing something wrong. Now please join me for Elevate Black Inc.

How did Ramon Discover He Was An Entrepreneur?

Ramon Ray:

I probably discovered it when I got fired from United Nations. That was probably when I got slapped upside the head and realized, “Huh, I got fired from the UN? How can you get fired from the United Nations, the most peace loving place on earth?” But I did. And I think that’s where I realized it and I’m sure I realized that a few months before just, we entrepreneurs, and again, those who are working in companies, you can be entrepreneurial in your business. I want to shout them out that we need people both. But some of us as you know, you cover the story of entrepreneurs, we’re just always pushing the barriers, we’re always poking it, always asking why, always saying, “Well, I want to do this way. Let me let me try this.”

Ramon Ray:

So, I think that’s kind of when I realized that I did one of my first press conferences, it didn’t go well, Alisa. The UN is a very, “Hello, everyone. Welcome. Thank you all delegates for being here today.” I was like “Yow, what’s up. How you all doing? Welcome.” My boss was mortified. So, those are some clues. I’m like, you know what, maybe Ramon needs to do his own thing.

Alisa Gumbs:

But you didn’t get fired for your personality. You really got fired for being an entrepreneur because you had a day job and a side hustle like many people start out doing and you weren’t allowed to continue it. So you sort of got plunged suddenly into full time entrepreneurship. Did you have like an oh crap moment?

Ramon Ray:

Yeah, probably. I think I did. I think that that time when it happened, I can recall two or three incidents in my life. I don’t know about you, but sometimes I think we have major milestones in our life, whatever it could. It could be traumatic or it could be good.

Ramon Ray:

But yeah, I was cold, I think. And in fact, I had the FedEx envelope, where I got the letter saying my contract wasn’t renewed. It’s a few feet from me. But yeah, I did. That oh crap moment was there. But I think thankfully, and again, speaking to those who are thinking of being entrepreneurs, those who haven’t made that leap yet, I had some savings. I had been doing things right. This just forced me. Like when you’re pushed into that pool, you got to swim or you’re going to die.

Ramon Ray:

I have small children. I have a family to support. We’re solo income, solo breadwinner, as they say. So, I had to make it work. So, I had that moment, but I think I learned. Thankfully, I was reading a lot of good things. Reading Black Enterprise at the time as well. And I think from there, I just took everything that kind of you have in the back of your head, brought it to the front. And today I’m here talking to Alisa, so. Yeah.

Alisa Gumbs:

So, when you said you were doing things, right. Let’s talk about what that is. Because I think that’s helpful for entrepreneurs.

From Employee to Business Owner

Ramon Ray:

Yeah, I think so. I think a few things that I was doing right, again, we can talk about both halves of the journey, if you wish. The journey pre, leading up to starting my business, but then there’s the other things you can do as your full time business.

Ramon Ray:

But I think something is right. Well, one, I did have some savings. That was useful, some money set aside. I think, two, I did have active clients. You can only have a certain amount of clients working a full time job. But I’m blessed to say that I had cash flow, as the professionals say, right. And I had some of that movement. So it wasn’t like, “Oh, no, what do I do? I’m new to this.” And three, since I had been doing it for some time still, side hustle, it was just activating that whatever those parts of the brain that weren’t full time, if that’s helpful.

Ramon Ray:

So, I think those are some things that were happening in. When calls came in, “Hey, Ramon, can you fly here and do this for free? Or can you do this big engagement with the big brands that we work with?” I was like, “No, let’s hold up on that.” I need to be paid.” So, I was able to turn those on and of course you evolve, you get better and better and better as you evolve your business.

Alisa Gumbs:

When you say that you’ve got the letter notifying you that your contract had been terminated a couple of feet away from you. I mean, that was years and years ago now. Do you keep it close by intentionally? And what does it remind you of?

Ramon Ray:

Yeah, I think so. I mean, one it’s in my important papers’ folders. But I think it reminds me and if I talk too long, I’ll start to cry. I cry very easily, I’m just warning you. So, if you ask the wrong question, Ramon is going to start booing right here.

Ramon Ray:

But, you know, I think I never want to forget where I came from. I never want to forget. I never want to be who I’m not. And I’m sure, again, Alisa, you do you talk to people from high and low. You talk to all kinds of people, but I always want to be approachable. I just want to be Ramon. I’m blessed to have some success. I probably will sell another company or two before I die.

Ramon Ray:

I’m growing. But I just never want to forget. Yeah, I know what it’s like to work a day job. I know what it’s like to be let go. I know what it’s like to wonder. Okay, I got a kid here, who’s two or three years old. How am I going to feed this child? I know what that’s like. So, I never want to forget that. I think that feeling of hungriness. It’s not that you want to be hungry, but you don’t want to forget what it’s like to have an empty stomach. Preferably, I haven’t been that far. But you know that metaphorically I don’t want to forget that hustle. Never lose the fire to keep fighting, if that’s helpful.

I don’t want to forget that hustle.

The Birth of Smart Hustle

Alisa Gumbs:

Okay. So, let’s talk about Smart Hustle, because you’ve started four different companies. And so, Smart Hustle wasn’t where you started with, but it is what you do currently and are most known for now. How did that come about?

Ramon Ray:

Yeah, I was doing a lot of things related to tech. First, you can call it a blog, small biz technology was the second company that I sold 20 years ago, to the date last year or two years ago. Point is, Smart Hustle, Alisa, I was just tired of being the tech guy only. That was how I built and you and I have known each other for a bit of time, but the tech, tech, tech person that was my … And I still know tech, but I was like, you know what, I love entrepreneurship. So, how can Ramon, this personality, if you wish, an author, a speaker, a writer. I do a couple of different things.

Ramon Ray:

What vehicle can I use to do that? And I think Smart Hustle gives me that vehicle of that I can inspire small business owners. That’s the biggest thing I love doing, right? Dude, inspire them to just be that cheerleader. Go, go, you can do it. You fell down, that’s okay get up, get up. Metaphorically, you can do that through our content.

Ramon Ray:

And I think education, that’s important. I’m not one who goes too deep. But I think educating and part of that education, I must say, is the honor to work with Black Enterprise on a number of things and help educate through that. So, not just about me, but I want to partner with people who are way beyond me and just add my little value to their flame, to their bonfire, if that makes sense.

Challenges of Small Business Success: Mindset

Alisa Gumbs:

So, through your platforms, you’re able to educate thousands of entrepreneurs a year. You really have a unique perspective on them. What do you see that they are struggling most with or that they need most right now?

Ramon Ray:

Yeah. I think maybe it’s two or three things. We’ll see how many I get to. But I think one is just the mindset. Everybody is not cut out to be an entrepreneur. Everybody is not cut out. Marie Forleo has this thing. She says everything is figureoutable.

Everybody is not cut out to be an entrepreneur

Ramon Ray:

I know Lisa Price who we’ve covered, she’s a family member, right, of Black Enterprise. She has that same kind of mojo where back in her day maybe she didn’t Google it or not, but the point is, you got to figure it out. So, when I say mindset, that ability to say, “Huh, okay, they said, I have to sell it.” I don’t know. They said, I have to find where Alisa is. You got to figure it out.

Ramon Ray:

Let me go on from there. That’s one, just the mindset, the figureoutable-ishness. That’s one.

Ramon Ray:

I think two, there is a bit of science to entrepreneurship, where it’s not just the art, the mindset, but you got to know a little bit about sales, a little bit of marketing, little techie, put your website together. Little understanding of customer service, please and thank you’s, things your mama probably taught you. So, that’s science, just the basics of running a business. Go to a bank, have your separate bank account. I think that’s two.

Ramon Ray:

And then I think three really is the ability to just go on. The billionaire founder who we had what Black Enterprise events two, three years ago – Byron Allen:

How do you want to scale is what I’m trying to say.

Ramon Ray:

So I think that’s that third thing. You could say, you know what I want to build a business that $200,000 business. Great, we’re good. Or if you’re saying I want to build a $10 million $50 million business. So I think those three things if that’s the mindset, the science, the art mindset two, the science more so of business, and I think three then how do you want to grow it is important to be on the right track with how you choose to grow it.

Alisa Gumbs:

Do you think that a lot of entrepreneurs think about that third thing, because most startups that I talked to did not go into this thinking, I want to build this size business. They’re like, I want to do this thing. Or I want to make this product. And here they are and, really, they don’t have any kind of growth or exit strategy.

Ramon Ray:

Yeah. No, you’re right. I think they don’t. And I think the successful ones, this doesn’t mean that everybody wakes up. Oh, huh, I want to build. No, there’s serendipity and accident. But I think yes, that does differentiate it. I may say, can I tell you a secret? Can I tell you secret?

Ramon Ray:

Only even Alisa, just a few months ago, whenever I’m being more disciplined, for example, cash flow, which I know is a big part of what Black Enterprise talks about finances and money and things. These are essential. But even myself, I’m learning okay, I got to look at cash flow. What is my deal flow? What is my conversion? It’s tough for me, because as you get a sense, marketing and tech is my forte. But finance is important too.

Ramon Ray:

So I’m learning that. And I think yes, that will separate those listening to us between those who get the first two right, but now how do you want to grow it because it is a choice. Choosing to do nothing is a choice. You go out with your girlfriends, so what do you want to eat? I don’t know. The car is moving towards Wendy’s and you know she doesn’t want Wendy’s or whatever it is. Her saying I don’t know is a choice. We’re at Wendy’s because you said you didn’t know, so.

Choosing to do nothing is a choice

Alisa Gumbs:

That’s a great way to put it.

Ramon Ray:

Right.

Alisa Gumbs:

So, I know there’s no like one size fits all approach to entrepreneurship. But as many entrepreneurs as you talk to all the time, I feel like you must have something that’s burning in your heart, some piece of advice that you feel like every entrepreneur needs to hear.

You Are Not Alone

Ramon Ray:

Yeah, I think, I was listening to something that Evan Goldberg, who’s the founder of Oracle NetSuite. Something that he was saying some weeks ago whatever. And I think it’s the aspect is that you may feel that you’re alone, but you’re not alone. I think that entrepreneurship can be very, very lonely. You may think it’s just me. And I think that’s the beauty of, right, the events that we or the Black Enterprise does reading about it. That I think that’s one of the most important things, because you just can’t figure it all out. You’re going to be great. You have your fancy MBA, your CPA, you know your numbers, but you suck at marketing. You could be like me, pretty good marketer, I can market pretty well. But I’m telling you, Alisa, the finance part it’s just … I can barely spell profit and loss some days.

Ramon Ray:

So my point is, you have to be able to know both. And my point is, I think, that’s the biggest piece of advice. You’re not alone, you will figure it out, and just be able to be nimble enough to navigate through the journey. Every day is different. I recently hired my son to work with Smart Hustle. We had a conversation today about just some various things. So, it’s always going to be a journey is my plan. I think that’s the biggest thing because everything else, if you have a quick smile, you’re listening, you’re smart, you’ll figure it out. But you’re not alone.

Ramon Ray:

You’re not the first person that went through cash flow issues or had to fire, or a customer said no, or delayed payment. You’re not the first person trust me on that.

Alisa Gumbs:

You just said two things that I have to go back to.

Starting A Family Business

Alisa Gumbs:

First is that you hired your son. And we talk about family businesses all the time, Black Enterprise is a family business. Did you ever think that you would be running a family business? And what’s that been like making that decision?

Ramon Ray:

I will tell you and this was … I’m thinking should I say this, because it’s a private conversation with people we know tied to family business, but I think I will say it.

Ramon Ray:

I was talking to somebody in a family business. She told me that at some point in her career, she didn’t want to work in the family business. She told her family that no, but eventually as she grew old and mature, and she came back. And by the way, this is somebody you know very well.

Ramon Ray:

And my son had a similar journey because I came to her, this mutual person we know, just for advice years ago, maybe three or four years ago. I pulled her aside at a big event. And I said, “What are you going through?” I just wanted two minutes of her time. And so my point is, I didn’t know. And some things if it’s helping that I was talking about family business. One, I had to let go. Stop bothering the kid. Tim, are you going to work for dad? Tim, are you going to work for dad? Tim, Merry Christmas? Are you going to work for dad? Doing that 52 times a year is annoying, so I had to let go.

Ramon Ray:

I think two, he matured and grew up. Now everybody doesn’t do this, meaning everybody hopefully will mature and grow. But he said, because we’re in a similar space. That’s what annoyed me, Alisa. I’m like, you are a content creator like we are why are we separate?

Ramon Ray:

So my point is, yeah, I didn’t know it. But when he called me and said, “Hey, Dad, let me grow this with you. Let’s see, what we can do together.” I was like, great. So if that’s helpful, I think those who are on that beginning stage, we all may want our kids or our parents or auntie’s, whatever to work with us, but be careful what you wish for. But I think part of that is like slowing down. You know how we guys do? Yo, baby, can I get your number? And I don’t want your number anyhow, I’m going to go. We really want it, but we kind of got to step back a bit, if that’s helpful.

The Power of a Quick Smile

Alisa Gumbs:

The second thing that you said when you were talking about entrepreneurs and their ability to figure out, as you said, if you have a quick smile. And I have never heard anyone say that before when it comes to business. But I often say, I’m someone who smiles all the time very quickly. And I tell people that it’s one of my best weapons, it disarms people, and it makes me really approachable. And it just changes the nature of conversations that you have with people. And so I just wanted to hear you expound on that, so.

Ramon Ray:

Yeah. I’m going to be the host. And maybe we’ll go back and forth. I’ll interview you for two minutes. But no. But definitely, Alisa, for sure I think that here’s why I say that. And I happen to say as with you, that’s one of, I think, my gifts. I was taking a book, which is right behind me called Strength Finders. I bet half the people listening to this probably have read it. And they said, I have the power … I’ve had some deep issues with lack of self-worth. You think I wouldn’t. I speak on stage around the world. I’ve interviewed President Barack Obama, I’ve been all over.

I’ve had some deep issues with lack of self-worth.

Ramon Ray:

And the books that I have was a strength of mine. I thought it was a put down. I’ll never forget when I was working with a big company. And there was one of these team meetings, you know, we’re all around with the stupid yellow pads. And you’re writing notes and you know team meetings. I say stupid, jokingly, you know. And everybody, you have the power of networking, you’re intelligent, oh, you’re A lister, oh, you’re a team builder, you’re a leader. And they’re like, oh, Ramon, what was yours? I’m like, woo.

Ramon Ray:

Woo, why do I have to be the moron in the group? She pulled me aside. Her name is Rebecca. I’ll never forget. She said, “Ramon, that’s rare quality. Most people don’t have woo.” The ability just, as you said, Alisa and you get this to be warm. My point is, I even forgot what you asked me. But my point is why smile is so important. I think that that’s just something where people want to feel welcome. They want to be brought in, whether it’s disarming or other words it helps you with sales, it helps you get what you want in a good way. You know what I mean? Just that aspect.

Ramon, that’s rare quality. Most people don’t have woo.”

Ramon Ray:

Some people may be more, , Alisa do this. Alisa, do this. Alisa, did you do that? But just a smile it’s non-threatening, and we don’t have to be threatening, right. So, I hope that’s helpful. But I guess my point is, even when I talk in my book, Celebrity CEO, I talk about ask for a smile before a sale. It’s part of that. Direct sales works and other thing works. But man, when you’re able to just to “Good morning. Hey, I see you.” Right? It’s disarming. And it’s beautiful.

Alisa Gumbs:

Yes. And I was actually going to talk about something else next, but since we’re already on this, and you mentioned your book, I want to say the full name of your most recent book is the Celebrity CEO, how entrepreneurs can thrive by building a community and a strong personal brand. And I think one of the things that people most remember about you is your energy. Like, no one ever talks about Ramon Ray without talking about your energy level. So, I want to ask you what is the Ramon Ray brand and how did you develop it?

What is the Ramon Ray Brand

Ramon Ray:

Yeah, how I developed it, I have to think about. You may have to help me. But I think yeah. I think that is it. I’ll never forget if I may share this, I think it’s okay, it’s nothing confidential. I was hosting, right, working with you to host a Black Enterprise event few years ago. I heard in the earpiece, Ramon, we need like 10 more minutes, whatever.

Ramon Ray:

Now I know other hosts, other people to be oh my, 10 more minutes. I was so excited. Ten more minutes oh men, doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. If you remember that song. I was like, “Let’s roll.” So I think yeah. I think energy and I must say Alisa, we all have different skill sets, whether it’s a Simon Sidney, Damon Johns. These are all luminaries, right? Who have different skill sets different ways. But that’s my gift. I do like the excitement fast talking high energy. It’s not for everybody.

Ramon Ray:

How to develop it? I think part of it has to be a bit natural. I really think. I had a friend call me yesterday. He’s the head of a IT company, he said, “Ramon, I’m giving a speech next Tuesday. What’s your advice with how I can deliver a 10 minute speech?” That’s all he has.

Ramon Ray:

I didn’t try to get him into being me because he was calling me, “Ramon, how can I tell more jokes? How can I be funny?” I said probably don’t do that because it’s not your gift. It’s not natural. Being a fool, is what I do best. But I said at least tell a story. So if this helps answer the question how to develop it for others. And other thing, Alisa, take improv. This is important because some people I’m sure you know them, they are a bit stuck up straight laced. They never smile, everything has to be perfect. They’re supposed to catch up on themselves and the whole world has to come to a start.

Ramon Ray:

Improv will help you own that. I got ketchup on this shirt. You know what, let me sprinkle some ketchup on this side, and I’ll carry two ketchup bottles, and we’ll start the conference. That improv will help you Alisa, is like, well, next time it happens to me, I’m going to keep that. But that’s the kind of thing. I think improv will help. That’s the best thing. If it’s not natural. God gives everybody different gifts. But improv just helps you bit loosen up, laugh quick, say and not know so much.

Ramon Ray:

Well, Alisa, I don’t think that’s a good point. No. Great point, Alisa and, and you move on. That’s what improv is about.

Alisa Gumbs:

So, when you were developing your brand and you mentioned the Ramon Ray persona, was it something that was intentional for you or were you just like, this is who I am and I’m going to go with it.

Ramon Ray:

Two years ago, a distant mentor of mine. Initials AE, who you also know ironically, told me “Ramon, the reason why brands work with you is because they’re getting Ramon.” I kind of had a hint of this, Alisa, and I’ve been in business as you know, for about 20 years, right? But only recently have I embraced this is who I am. Meaning I have to know business. I have to know tech and all this. But what I enjoy most and what I do well is the entertainment side. And I’ll give you a context to this.

Ramon Ray:

I was talking to my son, going back to him who’s 26. He said, “Dad, I hate main stage. I hate speaking on stage. I hate the limelight.” He loves coaching. Transforming lives, a room with ten people in it. Those long masterminds people do and, “Alisa, tell us about your childhood.” All that stuff that’s not me, 30 minutes, 25 minutes, I’ll give a seven minute keynote. I’m done. Good. Or moderating, as you know.

Ramon Ray:

So my point being, I’ve done this for a while. I’ve only been me for a while giving testimonies in church and things like this. Just being me, not trying to be funny. But I think that only recently have I realized, okay, this is a gift. This is what I’m going to lead with and sell. If you want a four hour clinic on cash flow, don’t call Ramon, I reject it all the time. Don’t do that. I have friends of mine who would kick my butt. We know friends, four hours, six hours on how to use social media, how to do marketing. Not my gift.

Ramon Ray:

But you want me to host something, emcee something, kick off something or give a 30 minute, 20 minute keynote that I can do. So if that’s helpful, that’s where I’ve recently come to realize, no, let me say no to the 90 minute thing on this and we refer other people. I can talk about LinkedIn, but two and a half hour clinic. Let me give it to my boys. And we probably know people who can do that much better than me, if that’s helpful.

Alisa Gumbs:

It is. But it’s also brave. And it’s brave, I think, on two fronts. One in embracing yourself, you mentioned that when you work for the UN, you got up and your boss was mortified at how you were. So, it’s very brave to come to terms with who you are authentically and present that to the world. And I want to know what that journey was like for you and how you got to that level of acceptance. But it’s also brave to turn things down especially as an entrepreneur you said, if you’re looking for that I’m not the person I’m going to say no. And I’m sure a lot of entrepreneurs out there like I can’t say no, you know.

So, it’s very brave to come to terms with who you are authentically and present that to the world

Ramon Ray:

Sure. And so two things, one, the reason why I’ve learned to say no and again, this is a journey. We’re always learning, learning, learning, I hope is that I realized I don’t enjoy it. I was paid some good money, Alisa, some good money to join a colleague of mine to like a full day mastermind. Alisa, I hope she’s not hearing it. I hated every minute of it. She’s going on, “So, ladies, stand up the music is starting. Put your hands together, breathe.” I mean you’ve been to the events and these are good. No, no. You know what I’m talking about? Breathe deep. And let’s think back. Okay, get the whiteboard and write down your deepest thoughts.

Ramon Ray:

I’m like, oh. But that’s just because it wasn’t me. So, this is why I’ve learned that when I’m in that, I can be my best, but I don’t enjoy it. And the second thing I think I was with a powerful executive leading a billion dollar company. I was hosting for her. That’s what we do, right? I was introducing her doing something and she has a British accent. “Ramon, I don’t know if I can match what you’re doing. I’m British. I’m just like this.”

Ramon Ray:

But my point being I said, “Do you want me to change?” She said, “No.” So if I’m answering the question to my point is I realize match with the right person. We respect each other. She was the thought leader. She went deep. Ninja woman. I mean, off the chain. I was like, ah, but yet, she needed me to help bring that out of her. That wasn’t her gift and it was a little boring too.

Ramon Ray:

So, I was able to just bring out and have fun, which is what I do, you know? So would I ever …

Alisa Gumbs:

You needed to woo it out of her.

Ramon Ray:

Ah, woo, Alisa, woo, woo it out of her. Yes, Alisa, I like that. I like that. That’s what it was indeed. Oh, wow. That’s powerful. Wow.

Alisa Gumbs:

Yeah.

Ramon Ray:

Woo it out of her. Wow, that is powerful. Wow.

Building Relationships – With Donuts?

Alisa Gumbs:

Yes. So, in the book, you say something that personal relationships, emotional intelligence, and the ability to connect with other humans are more important than any digital tool that you can give people for how to build their brand. And I want to share with the audience a little personal story between us. The very first time that we were going to work together, you showed up with doughnuts. And they weren’t donuts for the meeting they were doughnuts for me. And they weren’t Dunkin Donuts, although there’s nothing wrong with Dunkin Donuts. But they were an assortment of doughnuts from a trendy donut shop in town.

Alisa Gumbs:

I’m assuming you were stalking by social media and saw that I was a foodie. And I have to say that I discovered that one of their doughnuts is one of my favorite things on this planet. And so, I never think about those donuts, or talk about those donuts without also thinking about you and how thoughtful you are and how much I enjoy working with you.

Alisa Gumbs:

So, if your plan was to become one of my favorite people ever, through food, then you were completely successful. But, I mean, talk about the way that you build business relationships.

Ramon Ray:

Yeah. Thank you for expressing it. It wasn’t like a premeditated thought. I think it’s part of my life, what I do. But yes, and to unpack that, and to help others networking and things like this. I think that listen, we have our family relationships, and sometimes family is the worst. So I just want to say that because that’s the best relationship, we should have our spouses, our kids.

Ramon Ray:

Putting that aside, and hopefully we pour into them. But business is very particular. And I love your input Alisa, because I don’t know how the best way to say this. But I think A, there’s transaction relationships. It could be, you know, direct to consumer, whatever. I pay you $2, you give me this. I don’t expect more, you don’t expect more. You got the pen and that’s it. There’s no problem.

Ramon Ray:

So, as I said, how I work how can I educate small businesses that is my mission. I can do it through Smart Hustle. I can do it through my own platforms and channels which I do. But I want to work with Black Enterprise as well. I want to be valuable to them. I want to be on their mind.

Ramon Ray:

Now there’s a problem with that. Black Enterprise is a logo in a building. Logos and buildings can’t talk or shake hands or laugh. It can’t. I can’t. The website doesn’t know me if you know where I’m getting at. The Black Enterprise is represented by people. So, my point is yes. Not in a what’s in it for me way, not that, but anyway I can pour in, add a little value. Do a WhatsApp say happy birthday. Hey, how are you? Doughnuts, if I think of it, it’s my mojo, it’s my style. Maybe it’s woo. That is what I do when I can hear how to delight someone. There’s a lot, it could be 10 people in the room.

Ramon Ray:

So I’m thinking I’m talking too much now. But yes, it’s part of what I do just to … And I’ll give another example. Joe Connelly, some people may know WCBS Radio, old time reporter there. I recall many years ago, he was interviewing the head of Priceline. Some of you may know priceline.com. Similar strategy, but not in a yucky way, Alisa. Authentically, I hope it was. I waited to the last person.

Ramon Ray:

Hey, John Ramon, you know, he was fuddling with his bags. I said, “Let me help you just carry some out. Do you mind if I just talk.” Permission, that’s one permission to just chat with you as you walk to the door and I’ll leave you. But I set it up that way so there’s no threat. No, like, oh my God, he’s going to be a leech on me.

Ramon Ray:

So the point is, though, that was one of the biggest relationships I’ve had. I recall weeks later, hey, this is Ramon Ray, you said everybody should use the World Wide Web. Ramon, why should people use the World Wide Web? So, if that’s helpful to illustrate just my style of just being friendly, starting with a smile first.

Alisa Gumbs:

And the question that you mentioned in all of that was how can I delight people, which is not often a question that you hear asked in business?

how can I delight people

Adding Value to Other People

Ramon Ray:

Yeah. Yeah. It’s important. Because I think if we start there, we’re all selfish in a way. I recall my own, there was a lady who wanted to meet me for an event I did. She had a legal pad with maybe 72 things I did wrong at my event. Who do you think I hired for the next event to help me get everything right? Her? Added value. She’s like, “Ramon, I don’t want anything from you.” Okay. Yeah. I mean, in hindsight, in a fun way, I don’t want anything. Let’s just make this a gift to you. Everything you did Ramon, here’s one suggestion to make it better. Here you go. See you later.

Ramon Ray:

She’s on my mind. Can’t help it. So yes, that’s the tactic. Hillary Clinton. I got an interview with her, similar way. I can stop anytime you want, but just if it’s helpful for others, okay, it’s helpful. It’s just Hillary Clinton was, when she was senator in New York many years ago, but the principle is the same. She was surrounded by all these people. They were mobbing her, trying to talk to her, understandably. But you’re talking to the guy who got fired from the UN. I’m a maverick. I’m like, “Okay, I’m not sitting with these.” I say it in a fun way. Low lives, meaning, “Oh, the people, the crowd.” I’m Ramon.

Ramon Ray:

So, I saw that girl in the corner, two handbags, probably two Blackberries at that time. Hair just right. Not too loud. Just right. I said, “Oh I know who’s that girl. That’s Hillary’s girl. That’s her.” Her aide, right? I went to her, I got my interview.

Ramon Ray:

So, a little different tactic, but that principle of just finding the right person, being warm, being approachable. And everybody doesn’t want that. You’re going to get a few no’s. But I think more times than not, you’ll succeed in business, the art of business, just by being friendly, by being human.

Alisa Gumbs:

Do you think that entrepreneurs have to be people-people or have to learn how to be people-people, if they’re not naturally?

Ramon Ray:

I think you can be successful by being hard-nosed and not people. You can. Your money, what people may want from you. You’re just pushing down the door, wearing out somebody, it could work. But I think in the long term, you’ll be leaving a bad taste in somebody’s mouth. In the long term, what would they say behind your back? In the long term, will you be called again? I think that’s kind of the thing.

Ramon Ray:

As I talk to the clients, working with speakers and things, and you and I are similar in that. You talk behind the scenes and as you’re evaluating, “Hmm, do we want Jenny or do we want Stephanie? Do we want?” This is our work. So, I know how the conversations go to me. We open up, “Ramon, this speaker, they are so difficult to work with. Man.” And I’m like, “Okay, thanks for sharing it.” I’m glad I’m not on that listing.

Alisa Gumbs:

It is. People like to work with people they like and who are pleasant to work with and all of that. But I know you started out saying not everyone is cut out to be an entrepreneur, not everyone has the mindset of an entrepreneur. And as many entrepreneurs as I’ve interviewed over the years, they always ask me, and I say, “I’m just not an entrepreneur at heart. I want to go to work and do work that I love for a certain number of hours a day, and then go home, turn it off, and live the rest of my life. And I don’t want to worry about how the bills get paid or what the lawyers have to say or any of those things.”

Alisa Gumbs:

Yeah, I want to stop at some point in the day. And everything I know about entrepreneurs is that, for most of them it doesn’t stop. I mean, maybe not till they get to your level. But for the first however many years, it is like around the clock proposition. And so, I’m just wondering if part of that mindset of an entrepreneur has to be that you understand the importance of people …

Ramon Ray:

I think so.

Alisa Gumbs:

… and not just making a product or selling a service.

Ramon Ray:

For sure. I think so. And Daymond John kind of hinted it best, I think, in his book into The Power of Broke. I think the aspect of money can cure a lot. If you have unlimited funds, you can buy your way to do a lot of things. So, I think that’s a crack.

Ramon Ray:

But when you don’t, what is your asset? Yourself. That’s it. That’s all you can go by. You may have seen the contest Survivor and all these kinds of things. There’s no money. There’s no “Oh, well, take my credit card.” It’s that, “Okay, they have a piece of meat or they have a vegetable. They have water bottle that I need. How do I get it? Hey, Alisa, you know what? Can I wash your car today and mow your lawn? And you need me to babysit for you? And can I drink some of your?” It’s a silly example. But meaning it’s that, that’s all we have. So, I think yes, and that’s how I’ve grown in my business. I can’t always have the money or buy my way into something.

Ramon Ray:

And the other thing part of that is which goes back to networking, joint ventures, people who … I’m sure you get LinkedIn emails, I do. “Hey, Ramon, let’s do something together. Could you come to my house and paint my walls?” You said, let’s do something together. The email should have been, “What can we do together?” I’m saying it in a silly way, but that’s really how you do things.

Ramon Ray:

Let me think of what does Alisa, what does Joe, Bob, Stephanie, this company want? What do they value most? Let me hook them up. Let me get them set. Let’s make sure they’re happy. Hey, they asked me already what I want and if they don’t, now I have the right to say, “Listen, here’s what would make me happy in this relationship. Let’s do it this way.” People who like each other, the only thing is, “Yes, let’s grow together.” That’s a beautiful way.

Alisa Gumbs:

And maybe they won’t ask you and that’ll clue you in that they’re not the right partner for you also.

Ramon Ray:

Correct. That’s true, too. And many people though may not think of it, I do not know. So, I usually give a chance or two. That’s life. I am the same way that people who, “Oh man, I forgot to ask them this,” and they come to me, no problem. But I think it’s value and I think again you’re right to that point. The smile, the humanity, the emotion, just being understanding people are people. I think that’s powerful.

Alisa Gumbs:

We often talk about how challenging it is to be an entrepreneur and it’s not an easy journey. But one thing that we never talk about is how fun it is, which is also part of your brand. It’s actually one of your two company values at Smart Hustle is have fun. How did you get to the point where you decided that that was so intrinsic to what you were doing that it needs to be a company value? And what does it really mean on an everyday basis?

Ramon Ray:

Yeah, I think, one transactional thing I think it means is just even people I higher. Does this mean they have to be jokesters, comedians and rah, rah, rah every day? No, but I think they have to understand, I’m a jokester. I poke fun of myself. I laugh fast. I live life very loose, very light. If you can’t do that, it’s okay. You probably will find me too abrasive. You probably will not like getting on a team call with me. So, I think that’s if it’s helpful to others, that’s kind of how I start.

Ramon Ray:

And others, it could be for example, just to say what it’s not. Some people, for example, perfection is important to them. I mean, if you’re building the space shuttle, please, please don’t work with Ramon. Because I’m the type of guy, “You know what? Seven tiles, two tiles, potato, patata, four tiles, 5 million Celsius, 4 million. Come on, guys. Just let it roll.” That’s what I would do on the space shuttle.

Ramon Ray:

So, my point being, whoever you are, if you’re listening to us and seeing us here, just pick what’s important to you. Some people, the imagery, right? Whether you’re working with a fashionista, whoever it may be, that image that represents everything they’re about. So, I think that’s what that means, but fun for sure is important. I think that, for me, I’d like to have fun. I like to work with people who like to have fun, who get me that I like to have fun.

Ramon Ray:

And the brands that I work with, I must say, if the check is really, really big, that’s the tax for not having fun. So, I can make exceptions to that. But in general speaking, if you’re hiring Ramon, and I’ve been in situations like I hinted with this executive that I use the accent. I can modulate it a bit. But in general, if you’re bringing me somewhere is because you know that I like to have fun then, that’s how it is. And I mean, it’d be a fit for everybody. You come in, “Ramon, we have an executive that’s just no nonsense.” Get to the point. “Hi, Ramon, how are you? How can I help you?” “Well, you know what? You probably should call Alisa, you work with her. I’m going to go.” You know, whatever may be, so.

that’s the tax for not having fun

Alisa Gumbs:

I have to ask you this because it is part of the title of your company. And I think that over the last decade or so, there’s been this whole hustle mentality, this always grinding, no sleep, all of that. And then, the pendulum swung and there was this backlash to that and people were like, “That’s toxic and we need work life balance and entrepreneurs cannot work 24 hours a day. Let’s stop glamorizing that.” So, in the words of Ramon Ray, what is the difference between hustle and Smart Hustle?

What is the difference between hustle and Smart Hustle?

Ramon Ray:

Oh, do we have four hours? No.

Alisa Gumbs:

We got four minutes.

Ramon Ray:

All right. Here’s the bottom line. I would assume, Alisa, that everybody hustles. Most people want to work hard, scramble, hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle. That’s pretty much easy. But I think the smart comes in, whether it’s simple things or complex things. New business owners. The smart one is, have a separate bank account. Hustle is having one account for your personal and business. That’s hustle. Smart is having two different bank accounts.

Ramon Ray:

Hustle is things like hiring anybody in your company. We need to hire, hire, hire, hire, hire. Smart, let’s look at our purpose, values and mission. Are we hiring the right people? That’s the smart. One more example. For example, hustle could be, “Let’s just sell, sell, sell, sell, sell.” Smart hustle is, “Let me listen a bit. So, Alisa, you said your type of customer is this. You said your customer acquisition cost is this. You said your lifetime value for customers is great. You said what you really like is pink butterflies on all of your water bottles that we’re going to ship you.” That’s the smart hustle. Now I can serve that to Alisa in this example, exactly what she said. That’s the difference how I see it.

Alisa Gumbs:

Okay. And how have you protected sort of your own boundaries, because I know that you are super passionate about this. There’s not a thing that Black Enterprise has asked you to do that I know of in the last five years that you’ve said no to. And we are just one organization who is requesting you and your time. And as you mentioned, you have a family, I know that you have other hobbies and a life. How do you manage your work life balance as an entrepreneur and sort of protect your energy?

Work Life Balance

Ramon Ray:

Yeah, I think a few things to that, one is product prioritization. Black Enterprise, I do my best to never say no to because I wanted to be and I think I’ve to some degrees in the family, the overall people to work with and all this, this is what I want. So, what you want, you must add value to. So, I think that’s one using that example.

Ramon Ray:

What do I say no to? Things that I said, “Listen, this is not for me, not a fit, not something I want, not something that I find fun or whatever it is.” So, I think that’s how I do that. And I think two very clear systems. And the other thing for those who are starting out especially, I have an amazing executive assistant. She actually beats me into shape. So, I’ve learned over the years and I just increased her fee rate. She’s a baller. Everything goes to her and she knows my style.

Ramon Ray:

I look at calendar invites, calendar invites. We color code things. That really, I must say that number one thing helps me live the life I want. Because we can work together. She knows I can be fun. I can be the distracted one, like I just did. I’m teasing on that. I can be the distracted one and she can help ensure Ramon’s look ahead. If that’s helpful, that’s how it is.

Ramon Ray:

But you are right, boundaries, but saying no as well. As we heard from all the amazing speakers we’ve probably heard at events. The more you’re saying yes, you’re saying no to other things that are important. So, the more I say no, I can say yes to things that are important to me, live the life I want.

Alisa Gumbs:

Do you make those distinctions or decisions instinctually? Or do you sit down with yourself and have a very intentional strategic conversation with Ramon about what’s going on the no list and what’s going on the yes list?

Ramon Ray:

Some things require further thought, but it’s a pretty binary decision because often it goes back to who’s asking. That really makes a big difference. Of course, the organization, but let’s say it’s a new relationship. So, a new relationship. I can do a quick distinction with things I want. “Oh, wow. It’s so and so forth with this organization. That they’ve written books, I can learn from them.” That’s another thing. Not just me getting, but I can learn from them. By adding value to them, I can learn for example, right?

Ramon Ray:

So that’s one decision thinking, but also the who. We all have friends, right, who are close to us. “Hey, Ramon, can you do?” Before they even finish it, I know the answer is going to be yes. Other times, you learn the school of hard knocks. I’ve been asked to do things, Alisa, something happening very recently. Nothing with us. But I’ll just say, well, somebody asked me to be on the podcast. They wanted a pre-podcast call. And I’ll just tell you, I’m being a little open to Ramon’s world. I stopped being in pre-podcast calls. I stopped it. It’s a waste of my time.

Ramon Ray:

Oftentimes, the person saying a pre-podcast cast call, I’ve realized by me wasting time, they’re new. So, they’re asking me, “Ramon, what do you want to be asked? What are you going to talk about?” And this doesn’t mean I am anything. If it’s Oprah or Black Enterprise asking, you’ll have production and all that.

Ramon Ray:

But most people, “Alisa you do this?” If I know my stuff, if I said I’m the guru of finance, you don’t have to tell me, I’m going to ask you what cash flow is. I better answer the darn question. So that’s an example of what I say no to learning. Okay, and I told my team, “Ramon does not do pre-interviews.” No need for it, 30 minutes on the calendar to ask me what I want to be asked? We can do that via email. I know I’m not going to talk about stocks and bonds.

Alisa Gumbs:

Because you are Ramon and you don’t do that.

Ramon Ray:

That’s right.

Alisa Gumbs:

You would have said, “No, go talk to someone else.”

Ramon Ray:

That’s right. Exactly right. Refer them to the many people in the Black Enterprise community who can very well talk about stocks and bonds or finances way better than me.

Alisa Gumbs:

Well, we are going to wrap up this conversation which I have enjoyed so much. But since we’ve been talking all about fun, I’m just going to ask you what your best advice is for entrepreneurs out there to have more fun.

Ramon Ray:

Yes. Not take yourself too seriously, for sure. Learn to laugh at failure. Laugh at it and move on.

Alisa Gumbs:

Well, on that note, thank you so much, Ramon, for joining us. And thank you everyone for joining us for this episode of Elevate Black Inc. empowered by Fifth Third Bank.

Ramon Ray:

Thanks for having me.

The post My 20 Year Journey to Overnight Success. Ramon Ray’s Black Enterprise Interview. appeared first on SmartHustle.com.