WTKA Roundtable 2/8/2024: The Antithetical NCAASeth
Things Discussed:
Clink back! Outbid Harbaugh.
Wink Martindale: If you want a Ravens guy he invented the Amoeba. He's not young and not gonna stick around, but he holds this team together, and when he leaves he might have Clinkscale ready to take over, which he isn't now.
Matters if he's going to take one or two jobs (IE bring his guy) on staff because they need some recruiting juice if he's going to be a Mike Macdonald-level recruiter.
Lee Aaliya: This should be the last straw for the NCAA. NCAA strung him along for five then came up with ridiculous demands: wanted an 18-year-old to have all of his grocery receipts and pay $15,000 (was it $1500?). Jamal Crawford, Mitch McGary: The NCAA is preventing kids who want to come to Michigan FOR THE EDUCATION from coming here, and it's hard at this point not to believe it's out of hatred for Michigan. Michigan should have signed him and dared the NCAA to come after them.
NCAA vs Everybody: Dartmouth ruling will either stick if Dems retain White House, or get overturned by federal NLRB if Reps do, because of the party differences on unions (Craig: and grift!).
Expect to see some legislation in the near future in Southern states that protect the donors who were paying kids under the table for all these years, because they have some big tax liabilities.
[Hit the JUMP for the player, and video and stuff]
You can catch the entire episode on Michigan Insider's podcast stream.
Segment 2 is here. You can watch the video here:
The Usual Links:
Helpful iTunes subscribe link
General podcast feed link
Direct download link (right-click/save as)
What's with the theme music?
It's clear they wanted us to sign him and fight them in court.
I don't agree with this talk of grooming Clinkscale in two years. He has been co-DC and if there was a time to be DC, its now. Some coaches are comfortable in their role and do not want the extra responsibility or accountability, but yet it seems some don't accept this and keep pushing that narrative.
King Tot
February 8th, 2024 at 11:18 AM
^
Some reports suggest that he did want the role but was not ready....but then again we know nothing.
Blinkin
February 8th, 2024 at 11:22 AM
^
We're not in the room(s). If Sherrone thinks Clink needs more development time before being the full-time DC, then that's really the only data point we have.
dcmaizeandblue
February 8th, 2024 at 11:34 AM
^
You have absolutely zero knowledge how much input he had in that co-DC role. Same as the rest of us.
schreibee
February 8th, 2024 at 11:50 AM
^
Well we know what Sam says. And this is how he has described the situation.
So if you're saying Sam also has zero knowledge, then ok. But is there anyone who doesn't think Sam has someone feeding him info from inside the program (for whatever their own purposes are)?
Put it this way:
At right around the same time last night one site reported Cullen was a done deal, and would be announced today.
Meanwhile Sam reported Cullen was slow playing the job, likely to wait to interview with Seattle, which he could not do before the SB. And Michigan, obviously having read all these posts & comments here, knew that they could not wait over the weekend just to be rejected again!
So let's see who, if anyone, has insider info...🤷♂️
Killer Khakis
February 8th, 2024 at 11:46 AM
^
Id imagine with Moore being a first time HC, it might help ease his worries knowing both his coordinators aren’t first time coordinators calling the shots. Minter called the shots on defense last two years, Clink didn’t and Wink has. Campbell has been an OC for programs in the past, plus our new TE coach was a OC. A year with Clink being more involved and learning will be huge. Clink has coached under McDonald and Minter, he should be ready.
ff11
February 8th, 2024 at 11:27 AM
^
Is there a reason to go with Martindale rather than Cullen who was the previous rumored candidate other than maybe Cullen is too hot a commodity right now?
schreibee
February 8th, 2024 at 11:41 AM
^
Cullen has options, Wink doesn't? Might be that simple 🤷♂️
I've said this over several related threads over the past week, but coaching in the college game is distinctly less desirable than the NFL at this stage, because of the unlimited transfer portal & "NIL".
A college coach has to recruit, negotiate, close, and now re-recruit many of the players each off-season. There isn't just no off-season, there's no off day - Hell, no off second for those really tasked with crootin!
Talk was Cullen wanted play calling responsibilities, which made Michigan a better job than Seattle. But when you add in all the BS, looks like he decided taking over play calling from MM over time was a better deal than the mess they've let college get into.
And there's always the distinct possibility that Michigan was just plain outbid too! That wouldn't be surprising at all!
OldSchoolWolverine
February 8th, 2024 at 12:05 PM
^
I don't know but am not shocked the fan uproar over Wink. They did this to a lesser extent with both MacDonald and then Minter, and were spectacularly wrong. Wink would be a good hire.
Blinkin
February 8th, 2024 at 12:59 PM
^
I will admit to having been concerned that Minter would be a step down from MacDonald based on the performance of his Vandy defenses (though I did leave room for the consideration that Vandy just doesn't have talent). Minter worked out substantially better than I'd hoped in the winter of 2022, and I'm not afraid to admit that.
Brodie
February 8th, 2024 at 1:12 PM
^
I think there are valid concerns about the ways in which Mac and Minter evolved Wink's base defense. He blitzes a lot more and leaves DBs out on in coverage way more than we've been. Just repeating "he invented the defense!" doesn't really address those concerns
The Harbaugh C…
February 8th, 2024 at 6:45 PM
^
Many coordinators are forced to adapt to their strengths and weaknesses. If Michigan didn't have an insane front 4, I promise you would've seen a hole lot more blitzing in the NC game. Just how it is.
If Martindale had the '07 Giants D Line, you would've saw a helluva lot less blitzing. I can promise you that.
Ernis
February 8th, 2024 at 3:54 PM
^
Let’s get Bob Stoops or Les Miles instead of Wink. Maybe Bill Belichek is interested too!
Erik_in_Dayton
February 8th, 2024 at 11:29 AM
^
I agree that it's time to push back hard against the NCAA. The NCAA needs to realize that--like Tinkerbell and money--it only has power if people believe it does. And Michigan is one of the most significant parties who still treat it as if it is unquestionably legitimate. But the NCAA has proven that, like British government of the American colonies, it is not.
Michigan needs to say, "Hey, you live in our house, and we're just about done with you." The SEC would presumably be happy to ditch the college sports' current rules. Michigan and maybe a handful of similar schools can give them cover to start the system over. The NCAA needs to understand that. And if they won't, it's time to ditch them. Queme los barcos.
dragonchild
February 8th, 2024 at 11:38 AM
^
Because money laundering is A-OK but paying taxes is a bridge too far, as they go in the South.
And if anyone wants to whine about "no politics", the NCAA unfortunately made that untenable. They're getting socked around in court and legislatures are crafting laws to keep the house of cards from collapsing.
Remember Title IX? Know anyone who likes Title IX? No, everyone hates it. Everyone wants to get rid of it. But it's here to stay, because college athletics had OVER AN ENTIRE FUCKING CENTURY (!!!!!) to fix the rampant institutional sexism and did absolutely nothing until the federal government finally stepped in. No matter how much you might detest Title IX, to get rid of it you have to convince people the NCAA -- the institution that didn't lift a finger for over a hundred years and nailed Lee Aaliya over grocery bills -- would do better.
This is the exact same thing. The NCAA will not fix NIL, even if you gave them a century, because fixing problems is what they don't. So the governments (state and federal) will eventually step in and write a string of horrible laws that everyone will hate, but it will be unavoidable because the NCAA for decades and decades and decades had every opportunity to fix this shit and did absolutely nothing. All to keep the money train going for one day more.
King Tot
February 8th, 2024 at 12:09 PM
^
Everyone does not hate Title IX. Source
jmblue
February 8th, 2024 at 12:12 PM
^
How would you be able to "fix" NIL? The pro sports leagues have no control over what income their players earn off the field, so why would colleges?
The only thing I could see would be to outlaw any direct involvement between schools and NIL payments, but then you'd just see teams go through middlemen.
I think rules about the portal and eligibility can be made more rational but I don't see how you rein in NIL.
Brodie
February 8th, 2024 at 1:14 PM
^
Exactly, NIL is a fundamental right and it cannot really be restricted in any way. No court is going to allow it. The only thing that could change things is employment and high enough salaries to make NIL less compelling as a factor, but nothing is ever going to be able to put the legal bagman aspect to bed forever.
This post first appeared on
Mgoblog, please read the originial post:
here
OldSchoolWolverine
February 8th, 2024 at 11:15 AM ^
I don't agree with this talk of grooming Clinkscale in two years. He has been co-DC and if there was a time to be DC, its now. Some coaches are comfortable in their role and do not want the extra responsibility or accountability, but yet it seems some don't accept this and keep pushing that narrative.
Joined: 11/03/2013
MGoPoints: 23158
King Tot
February 8th, 2024 at 11:18 AM ^
Some reports suggest that he did want the role but was not ready....but then again we know nothing.
Joined: 11/29/2016
MGoPoints: 18713
Blinkin
February 8th, 2024 at 11:22 AM ^
We're not in the room(s). If Sherrone thinks Clink needs more development time before being the full-time DC, then that's really the only data point we have.
Joined: 08/17/2022
MGoPoints: 24151
dcmaizeandblue
February 8th, 2024 at 11:34 AM ^
You have absolutely zero knowledge how much input he had in that co-DC role. Same as the rest of us.
Joined: 04/01/2010
MGoPoints: 6765
schreibee
February 8th, 2024 at 11:50 AM ^
Well we know what Sam says. And this is how he has described the situation.
So if you're saying Sam also has zero knowledge, then ok. But is there anyone who doesn't think Sam has someone feeding him info from inside the program (for whatever their own purposes are)?
Put it this way:
At right around the same time last night one site reported Cullen was a done deal, and would be announced today.
Meanwhile Sam reported Cullen was slow playing the job, likely to wait to interview with Seattle, which he could not do before the SB. And Michigan, obviously having read all these posts & comments here, knew that they could not wait over the weekend just to be rejected again!
So let's see who, if anyone, has insider info...🤷♂️
Joined: 11/02/2009
MGoPoints: 20591
Killer Khakis
February 8th, 2024 at 11:46 AM ^
Id imagine with Moore being a first time HC, it might help ease his worries knowing both his coordinators aren’t first time coordinators calling the shots. Minter called the shots on defense last two years, Clink didn’t and Wink has. Campbell has been an OC for programs in the past, plus our new TE coach was a OC. A year with Clink being more involved and learning will be huge. Clink has coached under McDonald and Minter, he should be ready.
Joined: 12/03/2015
MGoPoints: 4078
ff11
February 8th, 2024 at 11:27 AM ^
Is there a reason to go with Martindale rather than Cullen who was the previous rumored candidate other than maybe Cullen is too hot a commodity right now?
Joined: 08/02/2010
MGoPoints: 96
schreibee
February 8th, 2024 at 11:41 AM ^
Cullen has options, Wink doesn't? Might be that simple 🤷♂️
I've said this over several related threads over the past week, but coaching in the college game is distinctly less desirable than the NFL at this stage, because of the unlimited transfer portal & "NIL".
A college coach has to recruit, negotiate, close, and now re-recruit many of the players each off-season. There isn't just no off-season, there's no off day - Hell, no off second for those really tasked with crootin!
Talk was Cullen wanted play calling responsibilities, which made Michigan a better job than Seattle. But when you add in all the BS, looks like he decided taking over play calling from MM over time was a better deal than the mess they've let college get into.
And there's always the distinct possibility that Michigan was just plain outbid too! That wouldn't be surprising at all!
Joined: 11/02/2009
MGoPoints: 20591
OldSchoolWolverine
February 8th, 2024 at 12:05 PM ^
I don't know but am not shocked the fan uproar over Wink. They did this to a lesser extent with both MacDonald and then Minter, and were spectacularly wrong. Wink would be a good hire.
Joined: 11/03/2013
MGoPoints: 23158
Blinkin
February 8th, 2024 at 12:59 PM ^
I will admit to having been concerned that Minter would be a step down from MacDonald based on the performance of his Vandy defenses (though I did leave room for the consideration that Vandy just doesn't have talent). Minter worked out substantially better than I'd hoped in the winter of 2022, and I'm not afraid to admit that.
Joined: 08/17/2022
MGoPoints: 24151
Brodie
February 8th, 2024 at 1:12 PM ^
I think there are valid concerns about the ways in which Mac and Minter evolved Wink's base defense. He blitzes a lot more and leaves DBs out on in coverage way more than we've been. Just repeating "he invented the defense!" doesn't really address those concerns
Joined: 11/19/2008
MGoPoints: 10651
The Harbaugh C…
February 8th, 2024 at 6:45 PM ^
Many coordinators are forced to adapt to their strengths and weaknesses. If Michigan didn't have an insane front 4, I promise you would've seen a hole lot more blitzing in the NC game. Just how it is.
If Martindale had the '07 Giants D Line, you would've saw a helluva lot less blitzing. I can promise you that.
Joined: 02/02/2024
MGoPoints: 114
Ernis
February 8th, 2024 at 3:54 PM ^
Let’s get Bob Stoops or Les Miles instead of Wink. Maybe Bill Belichek is interested too!
Joined: 09/23/2008
MGoPoints: 11010
Erik_in_Dayton
February 8th, 2024 at 11:29 AM ^
I agree that it's time to push back hard against the NCAA. The NCAA needs to realize that--like Tinkerbell and money--it only has power if people believe it does. And Michigan is one of the most significant parties who still treat it as if it is unquestionably legitimate. But the NCAA has proven that, like British government of the American colonies, it is not.
Michigan needs to say, "Hey, you live in our house, and we're just about done with you." The SEC would presumably be happy to ditch the college sports' current rules. Michigan and maybe a handful of similar schools can give them cover to start the system over. The NCAA needs to understand that. And if they won't, it's time to ditch them. Queme los barcos.
Joined: 12/03/2008
MGoPoints: 57714
dragonchild
February 8th, 2024 at 11:38 AM ^
Because money laundering is A-OK but paying taxes is a bridge too far, as they go in the South.
And if anyone wants to whine about "no politics", the NCAA unfortunately made that untenable. They're getting socked around in court and legislatures are crafting laws to keep the house of cards from collapsing.
Remember Title IX? Know anyone who likes Title IX? No, everyone hates it. Everyone wants to get rid of it. But it's here to stay, because college athletics had OVER AN ENTIRE FUCKING CENTURY (!!!!!) to fix the rampant institutional sexism and did absolutely nothing until the federal government finally stepped in. No matter how much you might detest Title IX, to get rid of it you have to convince people the NCAA -- the institution that didn't lift a finger for over a hundred years and nailed Lee Aaliya over grocery bills -- would do better.
This is the exact same thing. The NCAA will not fix NIL, even if you gave them a century, because fixing problems is what they don't. So the governments (state and federal) will eventually step in and write a string of horrible laws that everyone will hate, but it will be unavoidable because the NCAA for decades and decades and decades had every opportunity to fix this shit and did absolutely nothing. All to keep the money train going for one day more.
Joined: 10/13/2011
MGoPoints: 57794
King Tot
February 8th, 2024 at 12:09 PM ^
Everyone does not hate Title IX. Source
Joined: 11/29/2016
MGoPoints: 18713
jmblue
February 8th, 2024 at 12:12 PM ^
How would you be able to "fix" NIL? The pro sports leagues have no control over what income their players earn off the field, so why would colleges?
The only thing I could see would be to outlaw any direct involvement between schools and NIL payments, but then you'd just see teams go through middlemen.
I think rules about the portal and eligibility can be made more rational but I don't see how you rein in NIL.
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 102009
Brodie
February 8th, 2024 at 1:14 PM ^
Exactly, NIL is a fundamental right and it cannot really be restricted in any way. No court is going to allow it. The only thing that could change things is employment and high enough salaries to make NIL less compelling as a factor, but nothing is ever going to be able to put the legal bagman aspect to bed forever.
Joined: 11/19/2008
MGoPoints: 10651