The leader of the Pan-Yoruba socio-political organisation, Afenifere, Chief Ayo Adebanjo, speaks to DANIEL AYANTOYE on his assessment of the state of the nation, 63 years after independence

Many people believe that Nigeria has come a long way, at 63, how will you describe the journey so far?

We have come no way. Things are getting worse day by day. What we have now in the Country is far below expectations. This has been so bad, particularly in the last eight years, so don’t let us go there. But the bottom line now is that the constitution should be changed. If you change it, we will have a better Nigeria and the country will move forward.

At 95 years, you have witnessed the performance of successive governments, do you think leaders have done well so far or most have failed?

Most of them have failed woefully, particularly in the last eight years. They have drawn us backward in all ramifications. After we gained independence, later the military came in and they ended up giving us a military constitution. We have to leave that constitution.

There are insinuations that agitations for restructuring seem to have gone down since Tinubu came to power, why is that?

It has not gone down. It is left for Tinubu to act. He came into power on the promise of restructuring. It is left for him because one of the promises of the All Progressives Congress is to restructure and it is for him to fulfil that promise. Part of the misfortune of this country is that when people get into power, fulfilling whatever they had promised becomes a problem. So, call for restructuring has not gone down, it is very much alive but we want to see him implement it.

What aspect of restructuring are you proposing?

It is to return to federalism. Federalism has been practiced in the United States, Australia, the Netherlands and several other places. It is to have a fair constitution that will allow a fair share for everyone to live together. It is only those who want to cheat the other parts that won’t allow that to take place.

Many people will argue that it is better to focus on national development than for regions or states to have some independence, do you insist that restructuring is the way to go?

I’m not one of those many people. I’m one of those who fought for independence. Those who say that are the post-1960 generation. They don’t know how we started the country. They don’t know how divided the country is and how we were before independence. First, change this constitution and let them feel the impact of a new Nigeria, they will stop saying that. I have been saying it for long, Afenifere has been saying it for long and even the APC has been saying it for long. It’s only that they (APC) will not implement it. And that is so because they are not honest.

Many elderly people used to say that governance was better in the times of Chief Obafemi Awolowo, Ahmadu Bello, etc., what changed along the line that leaders at all levels seem to be selfish, plunging the country into misery and hunger?

It was because the military came in and changed the country. The military ruined this country. The military coups spoiled everything and they gave us a constitution which we are currently operating and that is why I said we should change the constitution. You can continue to operate the country on what we have currently, so the bottom line remains a change to the constitution.

Does it mean it’s the constitution that has a problem and not the leaders?

We have not had the right leaders in recent years. Are you talking about the people that are fighting for their own pockets rather than the well-being of the nation and its citizens? Look at the removal of petrol subsidy and see how people are suffering, yet the government officials are allocating more money to themselves. Even the palliatives they said they were distributing, some have ended up in the pockets of some officials. They don’t have love for the people but themselves; they are all selfish folks.

You once mentioned that bitter politics is being practiced in this generation, could you speak more on this?

Yes, is it not this same politics where within the political parties people are killing themselves and people are not safe? Since Buhari came in, haven’t you seen the rate of killings in the country, which we can say is more than civil war? Don’t let us go into that. Change the constitution and let us move forward.

Why are you insisting on a change of the constitution?

Look at the Constitution. For example, how can you have a situation whereby the government in power, which is also contesting in the elections, appoints the man that would be at the helm of the affairs of the commission (Independent National Electoral Commission) that will conduct the election, is that fair? The President chooses all the major people to handle one matter or the other during the election. Change this constitution to reflect the wishes of the people and then we will move forward.

You were once a secretary to the late Chief Obafemi Awolowo, a man who till today earns the respect and admiration of Nigerians across ethnic divisions, what do you think was the Nigeria of his dreams compared to what is happening now?

You can’t begin to compare. He envisioned a country where there will be freedom, enlightenment and progress. That was what he envisaged even before the military came. What we are seeing now is the opposite of progress.

What can the leaders of today learn from his leadership style and character?

They should read his books and follow his doctrine. They should desist from abandoning the promises they made to the people.

Chief Awolowo was well known as the promulgator of free education but some have argued that in today’s world education cannot be free. What do you make of that?

Education cannot be free because of their mismanagement. When he (Awolowo) made it free, it was because of prudent management of resources and not because there was excess money. Is it now that ministers, senators and House of Representatives members earn far more than professors that education will be free? When you have an awkward system of running the economy, it cannot be free. They have monopolised the benefits of the economy themselves, that’s why it cannot be free.

What do you think is the way forward to have the Nigeria we all want to see?

Change the constitution. If you don’t do that, you are wasting your time.

Given your relationship with Tinubu, will you engage him personally on the issue of restructuring or you don’t want to relate with him on that?

There is no long talk between me and Tinubu; he is my son. All I ask him to do is implement restructuring, through which he was elected in 1999.

Recently a United States court ruled that the presidential candidate of the Peoples Democratic Party, Atiku Abubakar, should be allowed to access President Bola Tinubu’s academic record at the Chicago State University but Tinubu appealed the ruling. Some people have described the scenario as embarrassing, what do you make of the drama, especially on the international scene?

What do you make of it yourself? When you say you have a certificate and they say you should make it public. For example, how can they tell me now that I should provide my academic record and I will now tell them not to get the record; it sounds somehow. Academic record is a public document. If I told you I worked at a bank and you told me that you were going to the bank to find out if I truly worked there, then I say don’t go there. What does that mean? You don’t need rocket science to tell you what is happening, but let the people judge.

But President Tinubu in the counter appeal to the US court order said the record if released will cause irreparable damage to him, don’t you think this is enough reason why the record should not be released to Atiku?

Personally, I don’t want to be involved in this issue of academic record. All I know is that for any political figure, your life is no longer private. Everything about him is public and if any public figure is now saying anything contrary, I leave the public to judge.

Is Afenifere stronger now; have you made peace with your leader, Pa Reuben Fasoranti?

There is nothing wrong with Afenifere. You have those who are disloyal, but Afenifere is strong, no matter what anybody may say.

So are you in a good relationship with Pa Fasoranti?

There is no quarrel between him and myself at all, and if you think there is, go and ask him. But for me, I have no quarrel with him. He was my leader and he resigned and I’m now the leader. No more, no less.

There seems to be distrust between ethnic groups, in which case northerners suspect the southerners, and vice versa. How can this mutual distrust be addressed for the overall development of the country?

By the time we sit down at a roundtable to draw a new constitution which should happen if we are sincere about keeping the country together, certain things will be addressed. That was why I supported Obi because of uniting the nation. Obi is not a Yoruba man. I should support Bola Tinubu, who was my product when he became a governor. I should be glad to make him the President but my principle is that the Yoruba have had their share. It is only some people who believed that because he is a Yoruba man therefore they should cheat others. The North and the Yoruba have had their share; it was the turn of the Igbo. Awon Igbo l’okan, kii se Yoruba l’okan (it was the Igbo’s turn, not the Yoruba’s).

What do you make of the clamour for Yoruba nation or do you think the country is better together?

The country is better together, but it means getting together on the principle of equity, fairness and inclusiveness. Then, everybody will be better together. I won’t be in a Nigeria where one tribe is cheating me. That is the essence of equity and that is why there should be federalism in a multi-national, I mean ethnic nationalities, nation where every nation will develop at its own space. The moment you don’t do that and you allow one section to dominate the other, there is no fairness there. So, if we are sincere about keeping Nigeria together as a nation, then adopt federalism where every section will be equal.

Aside from the clamouring, there have been killings in the South-East, coupled with the demand for Biafra nation, don’t you think that is a wrong approach to this issue?

Go and check history, the issue of Biafra came to being because of the injustice against the region in the present constitution. The injustice in the present constitution that provided for one side to dominate the other is why you have such issues. Was that not why the Igboho and the likes were clamouring for Yoruba nation? That is why we are fighting for equity. If you are not going to give us equity in a federation, then let everybody go back to where it was before the British came to colonise us.

Despite the clamours, former President Muhammadu Buhari didn’t do anything on restructuring, neither did he look at the recommendations of Goodluck Jonathan’s conference. Why do you think he did that?

Just forget Buhari, don’t remind me of him. He ruined the country.

Do you think restructuring the country is the best legacy Tinubu should leave for the country?

I will say yes, if he has the courage to do it. Many of you don’t understand what restructuring means. If the country is restructured, all agitations will be resolved and there will be peace. Not when one section wants to dominate the other. That’s the problem with the northerners; they want to dominate and I have said this on several times that if the North will be in Nigeria on an equal basis, then there will be peace. There are complaints from every tribe but when we can sit down and agree on a constitution, there will be peace.