For most of the 20th century, only one political party ruled Mexico: the Revolutionary Institutional Party, also known as the PRI.

For decades, the PRI controlled elections, crushed opposition, and maintained control, earning Mexico the nickname of the “perfect dictatorship.” WITHOf course there were elections, but the PRI always won. Then in 2000, everything changed.

After more than 70 years of uninterrupted rule, the PRI lost, ushering in a new era of Mexican politics in which political power changes hands. In other words, Mexico has become a democracy. But there is a serious danger of changing for the worse, at least according to author and commentator David Froome in a new op-ed for The Atlantic.

He joined the Texas Standard to prove that Andres Manuel López Obrador, or AMLO, was becoming an autocrat. Listen to the story above or read the transcript below.

This transcript has been lightly edited for clarity:

Texas Standard: AMLO has been president since December 2018. Why do you think Mexico has now reached a kind of tipping point that could determine its future?

David Frum: Mexico has a very influential President in an unfortunately weak state. A serious obstacle to the authority of the president is Mexico’s respected and independent electoral system, which is controlled by a body that is not under the control of the president. And AMLO’s goal from the moment he became president was to break the power of Mexico’s independent electoral power and bring back the old days of the president telling the voting system the results he wanted and the voting system producing the result the president wanted.

In fact, as far as I understand, the President took steps this week to undermine the very body you are talking about.

Yes, the first thing he tried to do was pass a constitutional amendment to get rid of an independent body. When that failed, he then passed a regular bill, which the Senate just approved just this week, that cuts much of the group’s funding. This body does many important things in Mexico, including issuing ID cards that Mexicans rely on. It is present in each of the 900 constituencies. So it costs some money. When you cut funding, you bring back local government officials who report to the president in charge of running elections, just like in the days of a one-party state.

David, we’ve often heard AMLO referred to as the “left wing leader”. You say that all this left versus right mindset here in the US is not very helpful when it comes to understanding what AMLO is doing right now. Why not?

Because his goal is to consolidate power in his hands. Sometimes these people attack foreigners, sometimes the poor, sometimes the rich, sometimes gays. So people say, “Depending on who the target you’re trying to use is, you’re left, right, or right.” But the project is always the same. Find some hatred, use it, and use that hatred to consolidate power in your hands. All these people belong to the same family, no matter what rhetoric they use.

What is this axis of hate you are talking about that AMLO is trying to exploit?

Look, Mexico is a divided society. This is an unequal society. It is a society that has failed to realize many of the opportunities created by the North American Free Trade Agreement. I mean, I point out in the article that if the Mexican economy grew four times faster than the Chinese economy since 1994, Mexico would today catch up with the standard of living in France. It could be a Fully Developed Society. That did not happen. And, of course, people are upset about it and look for answers and look for blame. But what AMLO is telling them is, well, “people are doing this to you”, not “we haven’t had enough economic reforms”. He says that Mexico has done too much and the answer is to put power in the hands of one man who will make Mexico great again.

Well, he blames the Americans? Does he blame the rich in Mexico?

Well, exactly. He blames obscure reasons. He uses the term “neoliberalism”. He attacks wealthy people in Mexico City. But it is important to understand that he does not have a special program of social reforms. Taxes in Mexico are about half that of a typical industrial society, and only about 16% of the state’s economy comes from taxes. He created some new social programs but destroyed others. He spent most of his money on big, flashy mega-projects, oil refineries, an environmentally destructive train, and the Mexico City airport debacle. He is not a social reformer at all. He is a consolidator of power.

What does this mean for Obrador personally? And do you see him manually selecting successors and such?

Yes, the taboo on the re-election of the President of Mexico after a six-year term is very strong. And I think it will take a real crisis for him to be able to break that taboo. It’s not that he can’t do it, but I don’t think it will be feasible. What he hopes to do in 2024 – elections will be held in the summer of 2024 – is to manually select a compliant successor. And then rig the voting system so that he can put that successor in office, whether that successor is popular or not. The risk is that the state loses control over most of the country’s territory. Anarchy in many provinces. And if you have an illegitimate president, then how does the state assert legal authority over the entire country?

We need to talk about how this will affect the US. Obviously there are a lot of people here in Texas who are focused on what’s going on with this huge border with Mexico – what’s going on with immigration, border security, one of the biggest political issues. here in Texas. It does not appear that there has been a major change in the Biden administration’s approach to AMLO. And yet all of this is happening under the supervision of President Biden, this tipping point that you describe.

Yes, unfortunately there is a lot of continuity between President Trump and President Biden on Mexican issues. Both had a very transactional approach. They want specific things – immigration controls, Trump wanted some deal to make NAFTA more protectionist, Biden wants to sell more GM corn. They have a list ready. And they have lost sight of the fact that a stable, successful, peaceful, prosperous Mexico is the highest interest. We haven’t said or done anything as Mexican democracies are shattered.

Well, let’s say you listened to President Biden for a moment, and it’s clear that this article in The Atlantic will grab a lot of people’s attention. What do you think we need to do politically that could make a difference?

Well, it’s a little late for the President of the United States to do anything at this point, because if Biden speaks now, he will create an opportunity for López Obrador to use anti-American sentiment as a resource for his own bid for power. But what ordinary Americans can do is just follow history and show that you care. I mean, Mexican liberals and democrats need to know that they are not alone and that they belong to a global democracy movement. You know, there’s a sad saying that Americans will do anything for Mexico except read about it. Read about it.

One more thing I need to ask you, David. Many listeners here in Texas have roots and ties to Mexico, and they may be listening to our speech right now and thinking, “Well, not entirely unexpected: the President, elected by the majority of the Mexican people, is becoming more powerful, and the American political elite is getting scared. “. What would you say to them?

What I would say to them is that Mexico is a country of great opportunity, due to which approximately one out of every nine Mexicans living today lives outside of Mexico. He cannot create wealth for his people. If it had a chance on the same trajectory it was on today in 1994 – to be a fully developed society, if it had the same standard of living as in France – you would have an open border. This may be similar to the US-Canada border. You wouldn’t worry. You know, between the United States and Canada, there are about as many migrants who go from Canada to the United States as there are from the United States to Canada. You don’t have to guard the border because you have the same societies on both sides.

It was a 1990s project. It can still happen. And López Obrador is trying to pull Mexico back into a reactionary past that is making Mexico more separated from the United States when it needs to be more united.