07.07.2023 (Caucasian Journal) Today we are especially honored to meet with H.E. Tedo JAPARIDZE – one of the most experienced Georgian diplomats, former National Security Adviser and the Secretary of National Security Council, Minister of Foreign Affairs and chairman of the parliamentary Committee for Foreign Affairs.
Mr. Japaridze also served as ambassador of Georgia to the United States, Canada and Mexico, and was secretary-general of the Organization of the Black Sea Economic Cooperation (BSEC).
Alexander KAFFKA, editor-in-chief of CJ: Your Excellency, welcome to Caucasian Journal. There are so many things to talk about, that I would rather leave it up to you what to pick from the today’s ample “menu”. Let’s perhaps start with your perception and state of mind: How would you summarize what you feel about the current moment – as a person, a citizen of your country?
Tedo JAPARIDZE: I am, indeed, very much grateful that you invited me to talk. Since the early 1990s after the dissolution of the Soviet Union and whatever was left after that colossal disruption, we have been discussing tortuously our mutual perspectives as the collapse of the USSR was so traumatic for all of us - to this day, it continues to define not only Russia's identity and its geopolitical imperatives but also of its immediate neighbors and far beyond, and naturally, of Georgia as well. Since that period, the entire world, including the post-Soviet space, has changed, turning from a no man’s land to something else, however, maybe still unclear to us. From a frightening stability of the “Cold War” up to the stages of “post-Soviet,” “post-modern,” “new normal,” “known unknowns” and “unknown unknowns” and many others, not well-defined and precise interpretations and rationale, especially of mental maps and landscapes, delusional ideas, predominantly, in tragic forms, and the brutal war in Ukraine reaffirms that distressing fact on the ground.
Plus, if we add to that quagmire the worldwide pandemic (which we all experienced and, I would say, unevenly survived) had a calamitous and misbalancing effect on entire global affairs. As for our part of the world, the South Caucasus, the Second Karabakh War has drastically altered the strategic landscape of our wider region. And that global paradigm shift keeps moving at pace. I recently came across Professor Paul Stephan’s (an old-time friend of mine from the Virginia University Law School) latest book, “The World Crisis and International Law,” from which an excerpt seems to stand out: "We live in a dark time. Not so long ago we thought a new dawn broke when the Cold War ended, bringing universal peace, general prosperity, worldwide connectivity, human rights, and the international rule of law. Instead, disillusion has overtaken us in the wake of shocks and abounding threats. We face uncivil politics, economic anxiety, and tribal conflict throughout the rich world. Authoritarian nationalists seem the coming thing around the world, rich and poor alike. Peace and prosperity do not. Many believers in the liberal international order now feel, like Marxists in the 1980s, that history has turned against them.”
Please forgive this long quote. We all indeed exist - and need to coexist - in dark times as nationalist and authoritarian forces are animated not only in Europe and the United States, but also in the post-Soviet space, including my own country, Georgia.
We usually have our choice between bad and worse, and for Georgia that survival pattern always has been about how to preserve our identify, but at the same time to take care of all security implications, and how to find out realistic balances between them.
What will be the philosophical and moral fixings for the construction of our region anew and specifically of Georgia in the near future to be tuned-in properly to those seismic changes around? Why did I pose that question to myself? I have been curious about this for a long time in grand strategic chunks, especially after Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine. So, should we be rethinking the history of decolonization to include Russia? Is Ukraine for Russia comparable to the experience of Suez for the UK and France? Are there other comparable examples in our history? Where are we all drifting off to? How should countries like Georgia survive those “interesting times” (as the Chinese curse has it, wishing their enemies to experience “interesting times”) and how to harmonize to those new strategic arrangements of world politics unfolding around us? So, you see that instead of answers, I have posed even more questions.
As Professor Neil MacFarlane, another good friend of mine from Oxford University, loves to say whenever we discuss the future perspectives of global affairs, including, naturally, of Georgia (and Neil and have been doing that since 1990s!): “THE FUTURE IS A DIFFERENT COUNTRY, Tedo!” Indeed!!! Nobody has ever been there, have they? Professor MacFarlane is right. However, that does not mean that we should not think about the future perspectives! However, to proceed that way, we, Georgians, should be extremely rational, pragmatic and realistic, as we live in a rough neighborhood and in a generally a ruthless world, where vibrant developments happen and those things predominantly are bad. So, we, Georgians, usually – and historically, due our geography and different strategic factors - have our choice between bad and worse, and for Georgia, that survival pattern always has been about preservation of our identify, but at the same time taking care of all security implications, internal and external, and finding out realistic, accurate balances between these challenges.
It’s not easy, believe me, as other global or regional actors, especially Russia, have different visions on those problems and interpret everything only in their own way and according to their own interests, beginning from security, stability, economic cooperation and through independence and sovereignty, particularly regarding their immediate neighbors. Why? In the case of Russia, the purpose is to dominate and control its periphery and keep neighbors unstable and relatively unsettled, according to so-called pattern of “negative conditionality” - either with us or against us, thus promoting, as Russian policy-makers think, their strategic interests. I had so many polemical but futile, ineffective discussions with my Russian colleagues, including, by the way, Russian democrats and liberals.
AK: Even before the current unprecedented political and military situation in Europe, Georgia and many other countries had been living though very turbulent times, with crisis, pandemics, and other factors of instability. And the challenges the world is facing now are plainly unprecedented and unthinkable. Given your vast political experience, how would you characterize the today’s situation on a global level? Can you name three top priorities for the political leaders to cope with?
I would humbly advise Georgia to be predictable, rational, pragmatic, trustworthy, useful and valuable for partners and immediate neighbors; be an “institutionalized democracy” based on the rule of law.
Let’s turn back briefly to that pattern of Russian “negative conditionality.” As acknowledged by Thomas Graham of Kissinger Associates (again, apologies for such a long quote!): “The war in Ukraine has changed the strategic dynamics in the former Soviet space and almost entirely to Russia’s disadvantage. Russia has lost Ukraine for at least a generation, as the conflict has strengthened Ukrainians’ sense of national identify and fortified their determination to minimize ties to Russia and anchor their future in Europe. Moldova also has a European future, and Russia will likely find it increasingly difficult to maintain its influence in Transnistria, which will be surrounded by “pro-European” territory. Turkey is already enhancing its influence in the Caucasus and will likely continue to do so at Russia’s expense. Meanwhile, Chinese influence is growing rapidly in Central Asia, where concerns about Moscow’s expansionary ambitions are growing, especially in Kazakhstan.”
Consequently, what has Russia gained? But more important to me is how should a country like Georgia survive under that impulsive circumstances and fluctuations in its immediate neighborhood? Again, not an easy question to find a proper answer to! I would humbly advise Georgians under those quivering conditions to be predictable, rational, pragmatic, trustworthy, useful and valuable to your strategic partners but also to your immediate historical neighbors who usually have long memories. Georgia itself should keep going on the democratic way, towards, as we say, an “institutionalized democracy” based on the rule of law, and do so with a supposition that democracy is a heavy burden, which our authorities and the opposition should take upon their shoulders and embark on that never-ending journey of perfection though excruciating and frequently disorderly processes.
As Winston Churchill sarcastically admitted in 1947, “democracy is the worst form of government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.” So, at present, we cannot afford to divide the country amongst winners and losers, if we ever could afford it. I once wrote that we need a more diffused sense of power. We cannot fail to affirm confidence in our democracy, nor should that depend only on western intervention. Our Western friends and allies may help, assist, but this is our democracy, our own project that we must build with care and diligence, accepting mediation or arbitration, but not relying on it systemically. The citizens of Georgia must never again be forced to choose between “effective” and “representative” democracy. I can reaffirm that during former Prime-Minister Giorgi Kvirikashvili’s term, the country bolstered its effectiveness brand as well as its democratic aura and that was acknowledged by foreign counterparts and experts.
Education should become the fundamental element of Georgia’s advancement towards the resolution of that centuries-old dilemma: How to preserve our identity in a secure way not to damage it.
I cannot advise current world leaders, regarding their top three priorities, as you urge me to do, but were I in the shoes, for example, of current Georgian leaders (which I apparently do not want to be!), I would concentrate my efforts on education, education and, once again, education.
Education should become a fundamental element of Georgia’s advancement towards the resolution of that centuries-old dilemma I mentioned above: how to preserve our identity but do that in a secure way not to damage it. Again, easy to say but, unsurprisingly, not easy to resolve that dilemma. Education, and knowledge in general, are the essential, basic instruments: If we do not broaden and deepen our knowledge, recalibrate our awareness regarding the entire context of global processes and trends, we may as a country be lost in the tangles of global affairs.
The “knowledge economy” (and not “globalization,” which as it looks in its current format has expired its resources and potential), as identified by Professor Paul Stephan, is key to flourishing in today’s world in different areas of politics, economy, security and stability. And a knowledge economy will be crucial in winning our battle for the future. I think that Georgia and Georgians of any and all political or ideological inclinations should be focused on that strategic agenda: the future!
AK: If we look at the global political-military toolset of today, we
see that the importance of the military tools is growing, while the political
and especially legal instruments are losing strength. If there is indeed such a
trend, what are the implications? What’s the future of global security?
AK: Let’s switch from the global scale to this country. Georgia’s
position is raising many concerns. The internal political situation is
worrisome – the political life is deadlocked; it threatens the investment
climate and the international image of Georgia as well. What is at the root of
the problems?
I called Georgia the "Peter Pan of the Caucasus" – a lovely character, but never grown up, matured.
On one occasion, I called Georgia the "Peter Pan of the Caucasus” – a lovely character, but never grown up, matured. You know that foreigners tend to say that Georgia is not a boring country – something always happens there, either good or bad. I wish maybe as an idealist, for Georgia to become as boring as Estonia, where things happen - sometimes maybe vibrant ones - but Estonia moves resolutely ahead and earns the top levels regionally and globally. Therefore, my perhaps naïve optimism is based on an assumption that one day Georgia will turn into what we call “secure democracy” when a country stands firmly on its both feet and makes its own sovereign and independent decisions without looking left or right.
AK: Ready answers to these problems are hard to find, especially if we
ask responsible professionals, who are always very careful in wording. But
still, are there any steps that you may suggest?
TJ:I am not an oracle but I may only humbly advise the current Georgian politicians of any kind: The government, majority or the opposition (I know that they all hate to be advised as they assume that they know everything!) - to get rid of that obsession and greediness for power, to keeping that power for years! Again, my message is not only about those who are currently in power but also about those who want to grab that by all means and contest in that regard not only with their opponents but with themselves vis-à-vis who’s more democratic, more liberal or more “European”, “pro-US” or “pro-EU”.
I remember one Greek friend of mine described Georgia as a land of “feudal pluralism” where everybody either pretends or desires to be a king who knows – and it’s ultimately only him or her (!) – how to navigate Georgia properly to safety, as some Georgian Moses. Instead of that sort of “pluralism” Georgia needs to consolidate its political agenda and identify its top strategic priorities, which, by the way, as I said above, have been identified by the Constitution, and, by the way, quite a long time ago. That “feudal pluralism” and the “rivalry” within it could have been funny to watch had it not impacted or affected damagingly the perspectives of Georgia itself. Sometimes it seems to me that there are more “democrats” and “liberals" around these days in Georgia than there is genuine democracy or liberalism itself. Once I wrote that when maxims of Jonathan Swift and George Orwell are taken together, messed with each other, and projected on Georgia, the saddening tears alas trump an obvious laughter.
AK:As a foreign affairs professional, would you like to comment in
particular on Georgia’s bilateral relations? One of highlights in your
distinguished career is serving as ambassador to the Unites States. I am sure
you have worked with some of the brightest political figures, and there are
many interesting episodes that you might share with our readers.
TJ: Yes, I have met many legendary political figures, including prominent US, European, regional politicians and academics – Presidents, Prime-Ministers, Members of Congress, Secretaries of State, MEPs, senior diplomats, scholars, opinion-makers and shapers/influencers. With each of them, I endeavored – sometimes even struggled and unfortunately failed - to talk about Georgia as not only some “geography,” a country with its unique historical, religious or cultural legacies but also as a specific strategic context, a country possessing distinctive institutional and collective centuries-long memory dealing with its rough neighborhood, including long imperial memories and current regional perceptions, which frequently – and unfortunately - usually turn into the calamitous realities for us.
James A. Baker (image: Baker Institute) |
A while ago, I remember, I asked Secretary James Baker, who was already retired, why the powerful United States cared so much about Georgia’s independence, sovereignty, stability and security. His response was indeed strategic and his words are still resonating in my memory: “The United States want to have as many as possible clusters of democracy and stability throughout the world and keep those clusters as far as possible from America. We see Georgia as one of this kind of clusters. And if the US succeeds with that grandiose plan, the United States itself would be secure and stable.”
Secretary Baker articulated those views in 1997. That same year, William Courtney, US Ambassador to Georgia, delivered a message to the European business community gathered in Brussels: It was time for Georgia to cease being a problem and a headache and become an opportunity for investors, and indeed an island of stability and democracy. Undeniably, we were going that way, however, then some things, well-known to us, happened here and there and Georgia is where it is now: we do our best to move ahead, accomplish our strategic agenda, maybe sometimes zigzagging here and there, but still moving ahead relatively resiliently. And that makes me cautiously optimistic.
Back to my meetings with political dignitaries and celebrities. I had an opportunity and privilege to meet and talk not only with US, European, Asian VIPs, including Turkish, Iranian, by the way even President Vladimir Putin. These were exceptionally interesting meetings, especially with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, and with high-level Iranian officials. No way to forget my strategically exceptional meetings with President Heidar Alyiev, President Suleiman Demirel, President Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, meetings full of vision and wisdom! By the way, I met with President Vladimir Putin a couple of times , and particularly the meeting in Bocharov Ruchei in 2002 was indeed “unforgettable” (exactly our impromptu exchange on the Georgian conflicts and the ways how to resolve them), but let’s talk about that some other time!
Luboš Dobrovský (image: Jindřich Nosek) |
So, where are we all now? Where is Georgia moving to and what’s our strategic agenda and the instruments to accomplish it? I have posed those questions above and I acknowledged that I do not know the exact answers as I am now an outsider and I do not know the details and nuances of Georgia’s current political process - and those nuances and details, usually are invisible for an outsider and are essential elements of policy-making. But still those magical sentiments of Mr. Dobrovský are sturdily cemented into my memory. By the way, we talked much about my meetings with variety of foreign high-level officials, but the most memorable and honorable were my encounters with President Zviad Gamsakhurdia, President Eduard Shevardnadze (daily for many years!!!), President Michael Saakashvili, the leadership of “Georgian Dream”. Each laid a solid brick in the foundation of Georgia’s independence and preserving its sovereignty, naturally, making their mistakes and missteps on that tumultuous way. Sometimes it seems that those blunders were just unavoidable and inevitable, as we say, home-grown, but some of those “mistakes and missteps” were just imposed on Georgia from outside (in the formats of conflicts, wars, internal vibrancy) and frequently dragged Georgia into strategic stalemate, hindering its progress and prosperity.
If Georgia survived as an independent and sovereign state, preserved its stability, security, achieved successes in its uphill and never-ending democracy-capacity building, all of this occurred thanks to immeasurable support and assistance of the United States.
AK: Georgia-USA relations in a time perspective… I think it’s a very
interesting case. We see such extremes as naming a Tbilisi’s street after an American
president to ‘personal attacks’ on the US ambassador… How important is America
to Georgian people? How do you see the future Georgia-USA relations?
TJ: Naturally, my answer to that question would be just a personal one, as already admitted above, nowadays I am not an insider of those very complex and comprehensive relations. On the other hand, I was among those Georgian leaders, politicians and diplomats who laid the first – and, I would say, very rock-hard, strategic cornerstone in the foundation of Georgia - US relations. That’s an extended, thirty+ years' long story how that multi-strategy journey advanced. However, there’s one emotional description of those relations, which I have recalled many times and want also to share it with you: If Georgia survived as an independent and sovereign state, preserved its stability, security, achieved successes in its uphill and never-ending process of democracy/capacity-building, all that occurred thanks to immeasurable support and assistance of the United States.
Of course, this was not a linear process and Georgia confronted certain wars, conflicts, drawbacks, failures and zigzags in that tumultuous process (I talked briefly about them above), but the United States always stood firmly next to Georgia whether these were achievements or failures, ready to help and assist and navigate Georgia properly and securely. While maybe assistance packages were timid by American standards, their cumulative value was significant. Each million spent in “our part of the world” was a geopolitical commitment to all of us. In effect, the United States was sponsoring our aspirations rather than buying out our destiny. As I learned recently from Ambassador Kelly Degnan, the US has provided to Georgia more than $6 billion in assistance, as well as other kind of support. That’s a colossal amount assistance to make Georgia a functioning democracy!
I remember, in 1998 I was invited to a ceremony celebrating the first $31 million US Government assistance package to Uzbekistan. The host was Ambassador Richard Morningstar, by that time, Special Adviser to the President and the Secretary of State on Assistance to the New Independent States of the Former Soviet Union (FSU). The guest of honor was Hillary Clinton, the First Lady at the time - but much more than that in terms of her influence.
In effect, the United States was sponsoring our aspirations rather than buying out our destiny.
I was asked by Ambassador Morningstar to close the event with an impromptu speech. I started by thanking the US Government for its immeasurable assistance for former Soviet republics, later straying towards a more personal tone. I talked about my son, Nika, who since 1994 (when we arrived in the US) grew into a typical American suburban teenager and was about to sit his final exams at Bethesda High School (BCC) in Maryland. So, I added his and his generation of Georgians’ American experience to the multi-billion-dollar package of US assistance that literally laid foundation of the newly instituted independent and sovereign Georgia. And then I wondered if Nika’s generation – or any generation thereafter – would ever repay the loan the people of Georgia received from Washington or, better to say, the citizens of the United States. I wished that our country would grow into a state with the rule of law, irreversibly democratic, affluent, substantially sovereign, capable of paying back its debts. The point I made was that for Nika’s generation of Georgians, debt and our collective “loan” were not merely financial but also moral.
So, Georgia’s commitment to the United States was not measurable. Any message of America’s support was what Georgia stands for and that spreads instantly across our small country like a wild fire. Everywhere, even in the smallest villages, Georgians who have fought so hard to wrench their nation from a future of servitude and occupation onto a pathway of democratic Americans values and civil society say it. Georgia has come a long way. By all means, our deep faith and legacy have been the engine of our transformation, fueled by the courage of a small but talented population. History has rocked Georgia brutally and Georgia has been repeatedly conquered, subjugated, and colonized. Yet we have lost neither our own vision of freedom nor our organic attachment to Western civilization. We have grown stronger and more consistent in our commitment to enshrine freedom and democracy as our national destiny. Yes, we are not perfect, however, who’s perfect in that imperfect world? And, I hope, we will not be moved from this path.
Even the process of engagement (not membership!) with the EU and NATO will make Georgia a better place than it is now.
AK: Georgians identify themselves strongly with Europe and the West in
general. That’s a very valuable asset, but must be handled with much care,
otherwise this resource might evaporate. How do you assess the EU and NATO’s
attitude to Georgia (and vice versa), and the progress of Georgia’s European
integration?
TJ: As I said many times, we live in a transforming neighborhood and attempt to maintain good relations with just about everyone. Turkey is our largest trading and strategic partner. Iran is returning to the region, including to Georgia. China is a new and powerful presence; the Middle East has discovered Georgia and invests here. Azerbaijan and Ukraine are also our strategic partners and we appreciate the normalcy and good-neighborly political, trade and commercial relations with Armenia. The Black Sea is a new strategic frontier, and Georgia is prominent on that landscape, specifically on its eastern shores. We acknowledge that all around us, other states, are going through their own transitions, some better than others, which is why security was such an important part of our conversation. We hope that one day we will become part of NATO and the EU, however, we also understand (I hope) that it looks like it’s a long-term perspective. However, let’s be positive regarding that overly pessimistic “long-term” perspective”: I think that even the process of engagement (not only membership!) with the EU and NATO will make Georgia a better place than it is now.
Georgia should be more visible, active in different strategic formats and discussions. We “disappeared” from those strategic arrangements, landscapes and discourses or just marginally emerging here and there. That’s not good indeed!
Therefore, all those “12 recommendations” and NATO guidelines are about that: how to make Georgia a normal, functioning democracy as the membership both in NATO or the EU, besides institutional capacity, including the military one, are based on values, principles and democratic practice. I hope that we are realistic about how this process may unfold and thus we should be ready for the opening of any window of opportunity. On the other hand, we have learned to be patient, not to rush the tempo, even as promises are made and then delayed as if we are fixated in front of revolving doors: we are in and promptly are out! We understand that, as I admitted above, the process of engagement is only slightly less important than the destination. That said, the prospect of NATO and the EU membership are powerful motivators for Georgia’s democratic development. If we fail to make progress, hope suffers, and with diminished hope the Georgians’ enthusiasm for its democratic development will wane. But in addition to all those NATO and the EU criteria and standards, Georgia itself should be more visible, active in different strategic formats and discussions. I see that we kind of “disappeared” from those strategic arrangements, landscapes and discourses or just marginally emerging here and there. That’s not good indeed!
AK: Georgia vis-à-vis its neighbors and other post-Soviet countries,
including Ukraine and Russia… Again, so many things to talk about – what would you like to emphasize? What is
your strategic advice?
TJ: As I admitted many times, nowadays I am not giving strategic advice because I do not know, as I admitted above, important details and nuances of the ongoing political process, which, as I watch that from outside, is slightly neurotic, chaotic, turbulent. By all means, one needs to be smart, wise, cautious to navigate properly through those cyclonic global political developments. So, to do that properly and as accurately as possible, one needs to think strategically and contextually, calculating appropriately not only what will be good for his/her own country but also for your partners, neighbors as well and – that may sound surprising and extraordinary to some - even for one’s opponents.
You remember the famous British military dictum? “Firstly, you need to penetrate under the skin of your
