Today on the podcast I am chatting with Brian K & The Parkway. This DC-based duo has a striking instrumental fusion they have dubbed as“coastal heartland rock.” Listen in to hear us chat about how Bruce Springsteen and Asbury Park inspired them to start a band, the difficulty of getting some concert tickets, what to expect at their live shows, and more.

Show Notes and Full Transcript

JK: Welcome to the Eat Sleep Breathe Music Podcast. My name is Jeanette Kimszal, and I’m here today chatting with the DC bass duo, Brian K and The Parkway. 

Forming in 2021, the band is made up of Brian Pagels and Stephen Russ. The Band name comes from both Pagel’s surname and the fact that the George Washington Memorial Parkway connects with the route between their Northern Virginia homes.

Pagels lives in Alexandria and Russ lives in Arlington. Their music is a nod to the 70s sound of artists like Springsteen, Tom Petty, and Warren Zevon. It’s guitar-based, roots-oriented rock, infused with a healthy dose of soul and R&B.

BK: Thank you. Thank you very much. Sure. So I’m, I’m Brian K. Uh, and, um, I, uh, I’m, I’m joined by my, my colleague and good friend here, Steven.

JK: Hi.

SR: Uh, I play drums and produce. 

BK: Yeah. And I, uh, I, I write all the songs, uh, some of which, uh, Steven co-wrote with me. Uh, I play guitar, I sing, um, and sometimes I play piano. Yeah.

JK:  Nice. Music was a form of solace for many people during the COVID pandemic. Was this the impetus for starting the band when you did?

BK: Um, it, it predates COVID a little bit, just in the sense that, uh, I had some material that I was working on, um, before the, um, sort of COVID lockdown started. 

Um, but it was, it was almost immediately prior to that, I think, that I sent Uh, the first track, uh, which is the title track for, for the album that’s coming out, Killing the Bear.

I sent that to Steven and I said, you know, I, you’ve, he’s been, he’d been asking me for years to, to work on a solo album, what was originally framed as a solo album. And I said, “I think I finally have the core song. Um, that, uh, is gonna kind of be the theme, uh, or, or set the theme for this entire album that I’m thinking about.”

Uh, and what do you think? And I think he said, “it was like, okay, or something like that.” 

SR: I did, I was like, this seems fine. You probably have better songs (laughing). 

BK: But, but, but, but then after that, you know, so, so that was sort of the impetus and then yeah, the, the, the bulk of the album, there were some songs that I had, um.

You know, in various degrees of completion, uh, sort of prior to the pandemic that, uh, I wound up like factoring into this project and then, um, there were, but there are a number of songs, at least probably 6 or so songs that were, were written kind of over that 2020, 2021 period from scratch. 

SR: So, I think what really was, what was cool about it was that, you know, it gave us something to like, talk about and think about during that time of, uh, that unprecedented time.

And it was kind of like, Hey man, yeah, next month we’ll be able to get the band together. And then the next month, next month we can get the band together. And then eventually we were like, You know what, let’s just like, put these songs away. For a while. And come back to them. And honestly, you don’t normally get that opportunity, right?

Like, as a musician, you just kind of keep creating and then you put it out. And this was like, Let’s shelve it. And, you know, when we pulled them back out, we were like, This is, this is, really worthwhile. Let’s do it. 

BK: Yeah.

JK: That’s great. So both of you guys have a pretty diverse range of musical inspirations. Are there any specific moments or songs that served as defining influence in your musical career?

SR: Uh. 

BK: yeah, well, I mean, so the first song that I can remember, um, loving, uh, when I was a little, little kid was Thriller. My neighbors who would babysit me across the street bought me that LP. And I spun that and like danced to it and, and loved it. 

Um, and then I guess the next one that probably is more directly related to the kind of music that we make was I saw the video at a relative’s house for Tom Petty’s Free Falling. And I had no idea who he was. I had like no context for who he was or what this song was or whatever. 

And I was just transfixed. I just thought he looked like the coolest guy in the world. He was like going up and down the escalator, playing the guitar, and then like looking out over LA. with these cool shades on. And I just thought I wanted to be like that guy. So I would say that’s pretty formative. Yeah. 

SR: I think, um, for me. I’m going to go a little Bruce Springsteen, a little nerdy here. Uh, so I, I was actually always a fan of Springsteen, but not like a super fan, fan-like Brian. Um, cause Brian’s from, you know, where Springsteen is from. So he has to be a fan. It’s just like part of it. 

BK: Yeah. 

SR: Right there (pointing to Brian’s Freehold, NJ t-shirt). 

JK: Nice.

SR: Um, and it was, uh, after I met Brian. Um, and I’m sure we had talked about Springsteen a little. And it was like July 4th and I was just like chilling at home on July 4th and cracked open a beer and I found the Hammersmith Odeon video on YouTube from like 1975 and Springsteen gets on stage and like very clearly does not really want to be there and then just like belts out.

To me the best version of “Thunder Road” that has ever existed um, and Like in that moment I was like I just love Bruce Springsteen. Like I’m now the biggest Bruce Springsteen fan and I need to like buy everything. And listen to all the albums even like “Ghost of Tom Joad” and like 

Which is very cool, but you know kind of weird and like, you know, like I was like, man, I am all in. And uh that was probably actually a very defining moment for our friendship too because Brian and I like are. You know, we kind of complete each other.

We’re very different, but we connect on the Springsteen. We connect on Dogs and we connect on a lot of music. And so, you know, for me, like that moment of finding that particular performance of that song really, uh, kind of set me on this particular course for sure. 

JK: Nice. That kind of ducktails into the next question I wanted to ask you. A lot of people do get influences from their surroundings, how growing up where you grew up had a bearing on your music. And do you think it would be different if you grew up in a different area? 

BK: Absolutely. I mean, um, Well, you know, growing up in Freehold, it was, it was almost like, um, The, the Springsteen influence was almost inescapable.

Um, and so. In fact, even when I was in, uh, in, in marching band in high school, uh, I was actually, I was a drummer in high school, uh, and, um, when I was a marching band, we, one of the years we did a tribute to, to Springsteen as our, as our halftime show. Uh, and rumor has it he actually showed up, uh, at the Thanksgiving, uh, pregame to see that performance, which is pretty cool.

Um, but yeah, so obviously that was like, you know, that was pretty inescapable, but I think, like, even more broadly speaking, Um, the whole, like, Jersey Shore sound, um, which, uh, in part is represented by what the E Street Band does, but, you know, extends out more broadly than that to Southside Johnny and and and other acts that sort of were contemporaries.

I think really influenced me in that. Um, you know, you had a lot of, it wasn’t just kind of straightforward rock and roll all the time. Uh, it wasn’t just like guitar-heavy type stuff. Um, there were, there were horns that were represented. There were a lot of soul and R&B influences in that music. And that was also stuff that was very, very prevalent in my household when I was growing up, right?

Like we listened to a lot of Motown. And things like that. And so I think it’s sort of the combination of those different styles of music that makes the Jersey Shore sound somewhat unique and which, at least in some, some instances we’ve incorporated into our sound as 

SR: well. I grew up in country territory. And while I now love country music man, I hated it for like a long time So I’m sure some of my musical influence is just trying to do anything but listen to country music 

But uh, I mean now I’m a total country guy But uh, it’s not we are very consciously not country Actually in the studio at one point Brian was like, do I have a bit of a twang?

No, no, you don’t He’s like, I feel like I want to sing this song with a twang. I was like, you really don’t want to sing it with a twang It’s okay (laughing). No, that’s great. I actually totally like on the jersey sound front. 

Like I do a lot of our social media and we both, you know Try to find cool bands to play with and cool people to meet but uh The the jersey bands like they definitely have a vibe That really kind of permeates their music and it’s, it’s really fun.

And like, and so many of those people are just so fricking nice. Like I’ve been so cool to us so far, but, uh, yeah, I kind of always know when I’m like, Flipping through our Instagram and it’s just our Instagram is just a ton of bands, right? And it’s just like oh, there’s a jersey band like oh, man, that sounds great.

Hey, good job guys. Yeah, it’s really cool 

JK: I know. I don’t know if it’s just being from Jersey. It’s like you have this Jersey pride. I’m always like it’s so awesome when there are bands from New Jersey.  I mean, you know, it’s awesome when people are from anywhere but I’m like always like “bands from New Jersey.” 

And it’s so funny because I feel I know sometimes we get the brunt of things like sometimes people hate New Jersey (laughiing).

BK: I know. I know. That’s why. That’s where it comes from, you know, we’ve got like a little bit of a chip on our shoulder, but also like, but, but also the thing is like, it’s funny, my, my wife’s not from New Jersey.

Um, she grew up in, in Virginia. And she’s like, yeah, every time like we go to New Jersey, like people are so nice and like friendly, they always want to talk to us and like, talk about our dog and stuff like that. 

And I think it’s true like New Jersey gets a bad rap. Um, but like, as Stephen was saying, like about the, um, like the music community is like really supportive, including to us who are, you know, even though I’m from Jersey originally like we’re technically like outsiders.

But they couldn’t have been more helpful in making sure we had, like, the best show lined up in Asbury Park for May 3rd, like. And they’ve continued to be supportive of us, which I think is super cool.

JK: Oh, that’s nice. Yeah, I saw that you guys were playing in Asbury. So we’ll definitely have to try and check out your show.

BK: Awesome. 

SR: That would be amazing. Yeah, I mean, we decided to become a band in Asbury Park. Like, we had written the album, but at that point I was still producing it, and we were going to put a band together. 

Yeah. We were trying to find where Bruce met Clarence Clemens, you know, which may or may not have happened the way it’s told and we were trying to find it and, you know, somewhere along that journey that night on the way to a Nicole Atkins show, um, we were, we were kind of like, why don’t we just like be a band and play it again?

Yeah, so that happened in Jersey. So I have, I have very fond feelings. 

JK: That’s cool. Did you see how he’s playing the, um, the See Here Now festival?

BK: We certainly did. We certainly did. Yeah. Yeah. 

JK: That’s going to be wild. Did you guys get tickets? Are you going to try and go? 

BK: I tried to get tickets today. And, and, you know, I just got like the spinning wheel for it. I hung on for an hour. With the spinning wheel and I was like, yeah, this is not going to happen. 

But, um, you know, we’re, we’re still, we, we have a couple of feelers out. We’re trying to see if we can get up there for that one way or another. So maybe we’re, we’re holding that hope. 

JK: Yeah, it should be, should be a good show. I know. We were, I, my friend actually got through and she’s like, I’ll get you tickets. I’m like, okay, thanks. Cause I was having the same problem. I logged in and then it was like 10 minutes before I actually was able to get to the cart. And then it’s like, it just, it was, it was a mess. It was even worse than last year with the Foo Fighters.

Cause I remember people were complaining about that. And it’s, it’s great that it’s getting bigger, but it’s also frustrating. Cause you’re like, can anyone ever get tickets? 

SR: Yeah, it’s such a racket, man. Like tickets. You can get tickets to Brian K and the Parkway Show super easy. 

BK: Yeah, that’s true. 

JK: No, that’s good.

SR: Concert tickets, I know where you can get them. Like, you might not see, like, Bruce there. But, you know.

JK: Hey, if it’s in New Jersey, you never know. 

SR: Yeah, May 3rd at, uh, the Berkeley Hotel. 

BK: Yep

SR: You know, if he’s listening. Or anyone cool in New Jersey for that matter. 

JK: Ticket stuff is so difficult. 

SR: I’m extremely concert ticket savvy. Like, I’ll do all the stuff, right? And, and it’s just like, it’s such a mess that it’s very hard for, for people to just get tickets. 

Like, I know how the, like, super nerds are doing it, right? Like, they’re running scripts and all that stuff, and like, but like, come on, man. 

BK: Yeah.

JK:  It’s not cool. 

BK: Whatever happened to just camping out? Outside of the, of the, uh, box office, you know, the night before. 

SR: Yeah.

BK: Just show up in line. Yeah. 

JK: Did you see, Nine Inch Nails did that a couple of years ago because they had, they were fed up with Ticketmaster and they were playing, um, I think, uh, what, where did the Rockettes play? In New York? I can’t remember.

BK: Radio City.

JK: Yeah Radio City. I couldn’t remember the name. 

BK: Yeah

JK: They were playing there and I remember my husband, he went to New York and stood in line and he got a ticket. He’s like, this is like, it’s 1996 again (laughing).

SR: Amazing. 

BK: Very cool. 

JK: I feel like there’s good and bad to that. 

BK: Right. Yeah, it’s true.

SR: There is like an entire Saved by the Bell episode about this that would make no sense to kids today. Maybe most Saved by the Bell episodes. 

BK: Yeah

SR: But like this one in particular is a core memory for me. 

JK: So many things.

SR: It’s it’s there’s a StubHub ticket link for one of our shows that is like not sold out. But there’s like two tickets on there for like 35 a piece.

It’s not gonna cost $35 and I was just like what is this? 

BK: Yeah, why does this exist? 

SR: What? What computer did this? 

BK: Right, right.

JK: I know. And then Ticketmaster owns…I don’t know if they own StubHub, but they do own a lot of the ticket broker sites. 

SR: Yeah

JK: That money doesn’t go to the band, right? It goes to Ticketmaster. But if they were at least going to the band and not into Ticketmaster’s pocket, then at least you’d feel like, Okay, well, I’m paying more, but it’s going to actually the artist. 

BK: It’s very complicated. 

SR: Yeah

BK: I’ve been hearing about recently, maybe you told me this, like, even like big bands, bands, you would think, you know, household names, they’ll plot out an entire tour.

And they essentially are banking on, like, almost all the shows selling out. And then even if that happens, they don’t even make any money until, like, the last five shows of the tour. Everything up until the last five shows of the tour is, like, recouping costs, basically. Which is pretty wild.

JK: That’s terrible.

SR: Yeah. It’s a mess. And that’s why, like, COVID, like, really, like, screws up stuff for bands. Like, because It happens later and then it’s like well those shows are just gone where you make the money.

BK: Right? 

SR: I don’t know. It’s it’s it’s rough out there.

BK: Why are we doing this (laughing)? 

SR: I quit I have other things to do (laughing). We do it because we love it. So do they.

BK: Oh, oh, right. Right, right. Okay, 

SR: You know, yeah, I mean there’s real…there’s real community around music that doesn’t exist around anything else. 

BK: That’s true. 

SR: And it’s And it does work better when people come to the shows. And when people who love the music can come to the shows. 

BK: Yes.

SR: Which is where I really get kind of frustrated about all the ticket stuff.

BK: Yeah, but again, no problem. Anyone who wants to can get tickets to our shows. And they’re reasonably priced and everyone will have a great time. 

JK: Well, going back to your latest single, Straight Through, features vocals from singer and bassist Cat Popper. So how did this collaboration come about and what do you feel Cat brought to the song that enhanced its message and overall sound?

BK: Yeah, uh, it came about in the most surprising way possible to me, which is I thought, I thought to myself, wouldn’t it be cool to sing a duet with Cat Popper? 

Uh, cause I’ve been a fan of hers for like 20 years now, and I’ve always really loved her voice. Uh, back. You know, she’s, she’s known in the industry as a bassist and she’s a phenomenal bassist.

But, uh, the, the first time I was actually drawn to her, uh, or like knew who she was, I learned about her from her harmony singing. Uh, and, uh, and then recently I, I, I’d heard, um, and some of her own material that she’s been releasing. She has a couple of singles out that you can find, um, as well. And she’s just got a great, uh, very distinctive voice.

And so I, um, I basically just filled out a form on her website and said, Hey, which like, you know, anyone who’s ever done that sort of thing before, like the expectation is, is probably like, I just won’t hear anything and that’ll be fine. 

SR: It’s going to spam. 

BK: It’s going, yeah. It’s going into a black hole and like, whatever, like that’s fine. Um, and in an hour she wrote back to me and had listened to the song and was like, I love this song and I’d be happy to do this. Let’s talk about it. 

And, um, it just went from there. So we had a phone conversation and she was, she was really sweet. And she like wanted to know more about the song itself, the inspiration behind it, and sort of how to approach it. 

Um, when she recorded it and, and then she did a phenomenal job. So that’s, that’s pretty much it. And, you know, fast forward to now. Um, and she’s, she’s gonna be playing at our release show at Jammin Java. She’s going to be opening the show.

She’s going to do some mixture of like, It sounds like she’s going to tell some stories and also play some songs, which I’m excited about because she’s hilarious. Um, and yeah, there might be some other surprises in store. So pretty pumped. 

JK: That’s awesome. 

SR: You nailed it. It’s, it’s actually kind of weird. Um, and I’m, I’m a huge Cat fan now, but at the time I kind of knew her through Brian. And you know, you get someone like that on the song and like, I mean, I’ve produced a bunch of albums, but I haven’t produced any albums, you know with like You know that like Willie Nelson played on (laughing). 

You know, and so I’m like well, this is great but like what if she sends me something and I’m like, oh man, this isn’t really what the song needs. And I like I’m, so glad I didn’t have to like have any kind of conversation like that like.

She just knocked it out of the park, which of course she would have right? But as a producer, you’re just kind of like well. You know, I don’t know, like, and I’m responsible. Like Brian has me here to like help make these things sound amazing. 

And, uh, now that I am getting to know her, I’m like, Oh, that would have been totally fine. Like if I had had to like chat with her about some part of it, but she, she killed it and, uh, to me it’s, it’s cool. Like, because to me, a lot of this band is kind of the story of me and Brian.

It’s like friendship and, uh, I’m not like much of a singer. I do it. Okay. And so it’s very cool to have like a duet on the album that has like someone else’s voice on there. 

Um, because it, you know, it, that’s kind of what we’re, we’re doing. It’s kind of a duo thing with a lot of other cool people involved. And, uh. The song is about just kind of navigating difficult stuff with your friends and trying to find the next, the next cool thing. 

And, uh, you know, the playfulness in her voice really like brings a lot of that home to me. It really, it makes it fun while also, you know, you’re going through some tough, some tough shit.

And, uh, it’s, it’s cool to have her on there, especially for that. 

JK: It’s, it’s a cool like duality between the two different vocalists and just a nice kind of upbeat and kind of good feel, feel good song.

BK: Yeah, thanks. Yeah. 

SR: Yeah, she’s freaking hilarious. Like Instagram plug like cat popper on Instagram, is it’s a riot.

BK: Yeah.

JK: Follow her?

SR: A lot of memes. A lot of memes. 

BK: Yeah. Yeah. 

SR: It’s really good. 

JK: I’ll have to check that out. 

BK: Yeah. 

SR: Totally recommend it. 

JK: It’ll be a nice, uh, brighten your day type of, uh, fun person to follow.

BK: Yeah

JK: Right?

SR: Yeah. 

BK: Totally. 

SR: Exactly. 

JK: Nice. I’ll have to check that out. Yeah. So do you, will you be doing any other, uh, collaborations in the future, you think? Either with her or anyone else? 

SR: Yes. 

BK: Definitely. 

SR: I mean, yeah. We did other ones on the album. 

JK: Oh, okay. 

SR: Um, They just, you know, the songs haven’t come out yet, but actually, uh, we have a saxophone player on the album who has performed with like Elton John. Um, his name is Sam Skelton, and he also was a session guy on a lot of my favorite 90s records.

And, uh, that one actually kind of came about, I think, before Cat happened. We knew we wanted a sax solo. And, um, my co-producer, Colin Derrick, Was like, oh this guy Sam Skelton like works at my school. Why don’t I ask him and you know when these things happen, you’re like, okay. 

Yeah, whatever. He’s probably fine and then I’m like, oh crap this guy like I was like. You mean the guy that like played with Elton John in this video I just found (laughing). And we’re like, okay I guess we should hire him. 

Um And like, you know, I I think we’re both big believers in uh, And finding cool people to work with, whether they like, honestly, whether they like have those kinds of credentials or not. 

Like the organ player on several songs, um, Moses came in, um, and he’s a, he’s a musician down in Columbia, South Carolina, who I’ve met once and had only heard played drums.

But I saw like Instagram of him playing organ and I was like I bet this guy just kills it on the organ. And like he did but it was like total like that was after the Cat thing and I think we were just riding high and we were like Let’s just get him. I bet it’ll be awesome. 

Um, so yeah, you know, we’re already talking about album two, and um, I’m already thinking about album two and people who I might want to ask to be involved. Um, to, to, you know, contribute some additional vocals and stuff.

Brian, Brian’s voice sounds great with, with the lady vocalist with it. And his wife did a lot of the backing vocals on the album, which she was very kind to just Take a break from whatever she was doing. And by the end of it, she, you know, she, it was, she was a little overlooked in that first to, to join in.

And then by the end of it, it would be like, Hey, can you come down here and write this vocal part with me? Like, let’s, let’s record it. So yeah, we’re, we’re kind of all about bringing in as many people as possible. 

BK: Yeah. Indeed.

JK: It’s fun and it also probably mixes things up a bit and it makes every song diverse and varied and…

SR: Totally.

JK: More…

SR: Every song should like feel like its own little world. You know, it should all, it should tell a tale unto itself. And it’s, it’s, bands can do that, right? Just staying in their core lineup. Um, and I think the next album will be maybe a little more of that for us where it’s the band playing and kind of minimal uh, additions beyond there. 

But, you know, each, each song should tell, should tell a story unto itself and kind of whatever you have to do within that to like really sell that is, uh, to me really important. 

JK: Yeah. So going back to the lyric video for Straight Through, I notice it’s got a lot of footage of like exploring different landscapes and I don’t know if it just, But I noticed like the video kind of speeds up and slows down to the music kind of creating this fun, just a fun experience.

Was this the intention for the video? Does it further tie into like the theme of the song? How did that all come about? 

BK: Yeah, the um, we had a couple, we were kicking around a couple different ideas for what the video could be. You know, even at, even at one point we were exploring like doing more of like an animated thing.

BK: But after, uh, talking with, uh, our, uh, What should we call him, our creative director, our art guy? 

SR: Yes, Daniel is our creative director. For sure. 

BK: Stephen’s a really good friend and my friend as well. Daniel Machado handles all of the sort of art direction and production work for us. So, the album cover, photo shoots, as well as video editing. Um, and so we finally kind of landed on a concept that we all liked, uh, which involved, like, sort of that, that more or less first person, Uh, view of a, of a hike, uh, that sort of tied into the lyric of trying to find your way straight through trying to find your way kind of to the, to the end of this hike. Right?

Um, and originally it was just going to be the single setting of the desert hike, uh, that, that Steven was on, um, but it just so happened the week of the filming. Uh, when Steven was in Texas. Um, that it snowed in the DC area. 

And I thought, Oh man, it would be really cool if I filmed a hike locally in the snow to juxtapose with the desert hike. Uh, and so that’s how the concept really came together. 

And then Daniel had the idea. At the end, uh, to sort of put a coda on the end where we’re actually finding each other kind of back from our respective hikes. Uh, and so we all, all of us basically contributed creatively to that concept. And I think, like, ultimately, that was, uh, what made it so successful was all 3 of our kind of input and ideas in it.

You have anything else to say about it?

SR: I did that damn hike like 3 times to get that video right. I mean, it was a beautiful hike, but like, it wasn’t three times good (laughing) because our, you know, the filming link was like 30 minutes. 

And so that’s like 30 minutes of film because Daniel wanted to do the time lapsing and I’m really glad you think it’s cool because like, you know, for me, I look at it and I’m like, man, that was like two hours of my life.

Um, in a beautiful place, but no, it was a really cool idea. And like, that is all Daniel’s brain. I’ve known Daniel since the second grade. And uh, that is just his brain at work because if it had just been Brian and I, it would just been like Three minutes of a hike and we were like, man, this looks cool. Yeah, you know like this like we do music We’re we’re music guys.

Uh, Daniel has the he he gives that special like he did the cover art um He did our photos like he he has that like brain ability To bring something cool because I mean that concept also came out of like well guys We really need a video like, you know?

BK: It’s like what can we do? 

SR: Yeah, like deadlines. Deadlines are really a great source of artistic inspiration. 

BK: (laughing)

SR: Um a lot of times and that was definitely the case But yeah, it was it was..we felt really silly filming the hug 

BK: Yeah 

SR: Yeah, but it was it was great. It was great. We went to see Wednesday that night. 

BK: We did.

SR: That was a killer show. 

BK: Yeah, it was awesome. 

SR: They are great. 

BK:  Yeah 

JK: I’ll have to check them out 

SR: Oh, they’re awesome. I think they’re originally from Ashville, North Carolina. 

BK:  Yeah

SR: And uh I mean, it’s like it’s it’s accessible, but it’s like it’s heavy um for like a kind of more of a, I don’t mainstream rock is the wrong word

BK: They’re 

SR: They’re not a metal band, but It’s like…

BK: They’re an indie rock band that’s growing in popularity.

SR: Yeah. That is what I would say. 

BK: But like they do, they do this like really big wall of sound thing. 

SR: Yeah. 

BK: With their, with guitars basically with just with like several guitars and a pedal steel. 

SR: Yeah. There’s a little pedal steel. 

BK: Yeah. So it’s, it’s like it’s pretty accessible. ’cause there are, there are songs there, but it is like a heavy wall of sound behind it. So earplugs are essential. I would say. 

JK: Oh yeah. I always wear…I don’t know if I’m just more sensitive now, but I feel like I need really. My husband actually got a good pair. They’re called Loop. They’re really good.

SR: They’re really nice.

JK: And they’re not that expensive, which is nice, because you would think something that’s really good would be kind of expensive, but they’re reasonably priced, so.

SR: Totally. I’m a little horrified about how little I wore earplugs in my life, especially while banging on drums as loudly as possible. 

BK: Same. 

SR: Man, we just didn’t know as much in the 90s.

BK: I went to this DC, uh, hardcore punk revival show, like, I don’t know when this was, maybe. Let’s say six years ago now or something like that um a lot of the..it was basically like a reunion of sorts for a lot of the DC hardcore bands from the 80s.

So like Scream played and um, there wasn’t like a Minor Threat reunion or anything like that, but there were like members of Minor Threat were there and played maybe Dag Nasty and whatever. 

Uh, it was the loudest thing I’ve ever been to. It was at the Black Cat. It was an incredible time. It was like really cool to be part of it, but I was kicking myself for not bringing earplugs to that thing.

JK: Yeah, it’s funny how you don’t I don’t know if it’s getting older. Now it’s really more noticeable. If you don’t wear earplugs, even you’re like, Ah, I can’t deal with this. 

BK: Yeah. 

SR: Oh yeah. 

BK: Definitely. 

SR: Yeah. I saw Rage Against the Machine. Oh, man. And then we saw Bruce in the same place. And I was like, Rage Against the Machine was about twice as loud as the E Street Band was.

BK: (laughing)

SR: And I had pretty similar seats. And I was like, man, this is, I mean, it was amazing, but. That’s 

BK: And that’s only like a third of the people on stage making that sound. 

SR: Yeah. 

BK: (laughing)

SR: It’s crazy. One of them was sitting down. It was nuts. 

JK: I say that’s why the outdoor shows are good, because at least you feel like the sound is kind of going out, not just contained in like one little room 

BK: For sure. 

SR: Oh yeah. 

BK: Yep. Yeah. 

JK: I know you were saying it’s great to have people come in and help you with the mu…the music videos. Do you feel they’re necessary in this day and age, and did you feel like they add a layer of meaning to the song or just another way for visibility as a band? What are your thoughts on music videos as, as a whole?

SR: We, we made a reel like two minutes before we hopped on this call because we live 30 minutes from each other. So we’re not always together.

BK: Right.

SR: Um, and I was like, all right. Well, we have to make a reel every time we’re together and like do some kind of video. 

BK: Yeah.

SR: Because uh it’s..the cool thing that I like is that people respond now to like you don’t have to make a super professional video. Like that that video we made looks super cool because Daniel did a lot of color work on it.

But yeah, it’s just our phones um, and people respond to that but people also respond to just like You making a video talking about something and uh, you know while I might have some opinions on Information consumption in 2024 to me. 

It is actually pretty cool that like now bands can make a cool video And it doesn’t have to be something you sunk thousands of dollars into. Because for a while I was like we got to do a music video.

Okay, let’s find $12,000 or whatever, you know and do it and There’s a lot of different ways to do that now. Um, and even like lip syncing is a thing people do, which used to not be something you could do at all. You know, like that’s not okay, but now it’s like, oh man, look at this cool video of this band lip syncing their song (laughing).

So, you know, some of that stuff, I’m kind of like, it’s a little silly, but hey man, it’s cool that we can make something. I feel like we made some art or made something funny and share it and not have to like put more of our life savings into it. 

BK: Right.

SR: And we can put more of that into, you know, making, making the records.

JK: Yeah, definitely. I know it’s, it’s, technology is so cool when you think about 30 years ago, you’d need all this equipment to do something so simple as a 3 minute video and now you literally have everything on your phone and it’s really awesome.

SR:  Oh yeah. I mean, we only spent two days in a recording studio for this album. Everything else, everyone just did at home. 

BK: Yeah. 

SR: Um, which is really, really great. 

BK: Yeah. 

JK: It’s like content can be produced so much easier these days. 

BK: For sure. 

SR: Totally. 

JK: Yeah. Which is awesome. 

JK: So the title of your debut album, Killing the Bear, carries a powerful metaphor. Can you elaborate on the meaning behind the title and how this kind of reflects the themes of the album as a whole?

BK: Yes. So, uh, I’ll, since, since you asked directly, I, I will, I will say that, um, I, I mean it, I think it’s totally fair for people to interpret things in whatever way they want or whatever way, like resonates with them. Um, you know, Jeff Tweedy from Wilco has a quote about, uh, uh, you know, basically, like, once you put a song out into the world, like, it becomes the world’s, it’s no longer yours, right?

And so, and I really believe that, and I think that’s, like, the healthy way to, to think about things. Uh, that being said, Killing the Bear is not, uh, meant to be taken literally (laughing), um, nor is it, nor, uh, nor is it meant to be taken as sort of, like, a goal. 

Or like a victory, um, Killing the Bear is much more of a, it’s a, it’s a warning tale, uh, more, more than anything, and the, the warning that, uh, it’s trying to communicate is that If all we ever do is, um, address like surface level concerns, surface level, bring surface level solutions to, or what we think are solutions to problems, um, like whatever is buried underneath is just festering and festering and festering.

Um, and that, that kind of works at the individual level all the way up to the societal level. And so, um, that’s really what the, what the song is about. The character in the song, like, thinks at least for a period of time that like, what he needs to do is kill the bear from encroaching on his territory. Uh, when in fact there are, there are larger things he, he needs to be addressing and, um, yeah, that’s what, that’s, that’s it.

And then, yeah, that, that kind of spills out to the rest of the album. I mean, the album, um, more or less as a series of tales of, of different characters who are struggling with, you know. all manner of problems in their lives. And, uh, you know, it’s about the choices that they’re making in trying to address those problems.

Uh, more often than not, um, you know, making bad choices, I guess, but sometimes there are some positive tunes as well, so. 

JK: Well, you figure you can also learn from all your bad choices as well (laughing). Sometimes, unfortunately, sometimes those things you learn are more important than things that go right, unfortunately, but, you know?

BK: Absolutely. Absolutely. And the thing I told Stephen about it when I was telling him about the theme, and as I was developing all these lyrics, is that, like, I’m not, as the author, people, the person creating these characters, like, I’m not, I’m not, viewing them through a judgmental lens. It’s just like, this is just humanity.

Like, this is just how we all are. Like we, we, we all do these things. We all address kind of the surface. We all make bad decisions. And, and so it’s, it’s more about like, yeah, to your point, very well said, like how we learn from those and, uh, make better choices in the future. So, 

JK: As they say to err is to be human. So. So (laughing)

BK: Indeed.

JK: So you had taken an inspiring trip to New Jersey during the writing process visiting the house where Bruce Springsteen wrote Born to Run. How did this pilgrimage influence the creation of your own music and what aspects of Springsteen’s legacy do you find most impactful? 

SR: I have to say that for us, being, being such huge fans and that being a thing that like brought us together, um, and we definitely spent that whole trip listening to like Springsteen bootlegs You know, then we get back home we’re like But we don’t want it to just sound like Springsteen and then it became and they know an internal fight of like All right.

What choices are we making? that would be like different than the boss would do and you know, there was a lot of There was a lot of back and forth on that And of course, you know Every everything is referencing everything else. 

So yeah, you know we pulled from Neil Young, we pulled from Tom Petty, we pulled from, uh, you know, some 70s prog greats, you know, we pulled from 90s rock, you know, we kind of pulled from everywhere we could for stuff we like, um, to find soundscapes.

And, uh, you know, then there’s “Little Fires.” Which is uh The song that hasn’t come out yet. Um, it’ll be the song that we kind of launched the album with and uh, it’s it’s straight up The Wild, the Innocent & the E Street Shuffle. Like it is like Man it’s like It’s it’s just exactly that album all the way down to like the drums and the production um in the horn section and the vocal reverb.

And, uh, it was just, it was a lot of fun to just, after kind of all that, you know, careful, careful stuff to like, really just go for it on one song. And, uh, to me, I actually like want this to be like a tradition where we just take a Springsteen album that we both love and, uh, kind of pull a song that’s exactly Exactly that, uh, and then have it be our own song.

So that song is called “Little Fires, the Parkway Shuffle.” And, uh, it’s, it’s, it’s a lot of fun. And to me, it’s also going to be a highlight of the live show. Um, I think as well, which to me is a lot of, is a lot of his legacy. Um, I, I love a lot of the albums, but. There’s nothing like going to Springsteen’s show.

And Brian took me to my first one, uh, we saw the, Th River, the most recent River Tour where he played all of the river and then, you know, played for like five more hours afterwards. Um, and, you know, to me, like that really is like his, you, we know, every time I go to a show, I want to feel the way I felt during that show.

Which is like a really high bar for everyone else and very unfair of me. But you know, it’s that’s how you want to feel when you’re at a concert and experiencing it. So that that’s what it is to me 

BK: Yeah, i’ll…the only thing i’ll add is is on “Little Fires” itself. Um The reason why I wrote that song in that way and the reason why We decided to kind of go full on in the direction of like let’s just make this sound like it was an outtake From the The Wild, the Innocent & the E Street Shuffle is because, um.

There have been a lot of bands that have been kind of wearing their Springsteen influence on their sleeve over the last 20 years or so, but almost all of them are doing so in a way that is paying homage to, like, his 80s output. So it’s a lot of stuff that sounds like it could belong on Born in the USA, or even a lot of stuff recently that sounds like it could belong on Tunnel of Love.

You take a band like The War on Drugs, or Um, you know, someone like that and a lot of what, what they’re, what they’re doing sort of with like drum machines or, uh, or, or whatnot. And, and synth sounds really sounds like the Tunnel of Love template. Uh, but what I didn’t hear a lot of was anyone kind of doing early sounding Springsteen sort of like what I call like the Prague soul era of Springsteen.

Uh, and so I just thought yeah. Wouldn’t it be cool if we had a song in our repertoire that did that which is something that I haven’t really heard Other at least modern artists doing so. Yeah 

JK: Oh, that’s cool. I, I actually have never seen Bruce Springsteen.

JK: My sister’s gone to see him a couple times, but I’ve heard great things and never really listened to a lot of his music until I read that book and I can’t remember the name of the book. And then they made a movie, I think, I don’t know if it was…Blinded By the Light. 

BK: Blinded by the Light. Yes. 

JK: Okay. It was Blinded by the Light. Okay. And then after that I was like, you know, I started listening to, and I was like, wow, you know, it is so powerful. And it’s neat to have those influences and make them, make them your own, or look at what hasn’t been done and incorporate that into your music as well. 

BK: Exactly. 

JK: Just listening to the two tracks, “Wind the Clock” and “Straight Through”, they seem to convey different narratives and musical styles. And would you say that the album, the rest of the album is kind of similar with various sounds and stories as well? 

BK: The album is definitely a pastiche of, of musical styles that. You know, what I was doing when I was originally working on the demos is I had a pretty good conception of sort of what I was going for on each one.

And they definitely were intended to inhabit sort of all of my disparate influences, at least like within the broadly speaking within the rock genre. Uh, and so. So, yeah, they, they, they definitely do each all kind of inhabit their own, their own sound space, but I would, I would credit Steven and Colin, uh, Steven’s co producer who he mentioned earlier as, as really doing like amazing work to make it sound like unified whole.

As I mentioned before, like the album’s connected thematically, but it could still, it could still have fallen apart (laughing) if sonically there wasn’t a connection across these like very disparate kind of, uh, at least compositions, let’s say. Uh, and so I think they did a really good job making it sound like a cohesive thing.

JK: Yeah, I guess because since you only have the two tracks out, it’s hard to see connections, but then also once you have the whole album out, it’ll be easier to see the threads that bind the songs. 

BK: And sequencing helps with that too. Um, it, you know, it helps it kind of adjust your ear. You know, we, we very carefully sequenced it. I’m sure everyone says that (laughing)

SR: I sequenced it while running a lot. Like this was a running producing album for me. Like I would put it on like, I, I, I don’t want to oversell that because someone may get it, but like, I would never run to this. 

BK: (laughing)

SR: Um, but you know, I, I would put it on and go for a run. And, uh, you know, it’s, it’s a bit sequenced to that, like, and I would run a lot of the same route, you know, and it’s, it’s 36 minutes and it really, like, I would just run to it.

And I think that that helped give the album a flow. I’ve never done that before, but, you know, that was mostly when I listened to all the ruffs and listen to everything people were sending me, um, multitasking and, uh, it really influenced the album though, because there’s a real kind of momentum to it. 

And the album like feel kind of goes through a bunch of different, uh, kind of phases and it, it, You know, I think that there’s some connection there that like people wouldn’t necessarily know 

Um, and then of course when you’re making a vinyl you think about side A and B um And so yeah, brian was just getting like text after text from me about like we can’t put this song in side B It’s too long and like i’m, sorry. 

And Brian’s like I don’t even care about the vinyl. I don’t even listen to vinyl But uh, you know to me that was like kind of paramount because the songs can be You pretty different. Um, but you know, you really got to bring people through, through the field. 

JK: I’m interested to hear the album and how it would go with the, although I know you said, don’t, don’t quote you on that one, but I (laughing)

SR: Look, yeah, no, I don’t know. You’d probably be running at a lot of different paces. Um, if you really tried to run to it. 

JK: I’ll take it with a grain of salt then, I guess. (Laughing) So what is the next track that you will be releasing? 

BK: Well, I think, you know, the next track that we’ll be promoting will be “Little Fires,” which is going to be more or less coincide with the, with the album release itself.

BK: So the whole album will be available and, you know, on streaming platforms on, on March 29th. And, uh, the final will be, is already for sale, uh, at our online store at Bandcamp. But, um, But, but yeah “Little Fires” will be the next one. 

And, and, um, so I look, look forward to hearing people’s reaction to that. You know, we’re going to be, we’ll be dropping like effectively seven fresh tracks on people on a single day.

And so I’m just, I’m sort of curious to see their response to that one, but really everything else, like I, I suspect it’s the kind of album where I suspect.

A lot of people are going to have different favorite tracks. And I think it’ll just be fun to like hear that reaction from people, both in terms of what the feedback they give us while they’re listening to the album, as well as like how we experience the audiences at our release show and on our tour, like responding to different songs.I think that’ll be really fun to see. 

JK: I know it’s interesting. Cause It seems like sometimes an artist will drop a couple songs before, but it makes sense that since your album’s dropping this month that you would throw everything out, not, not throw everything out, but put everything out close to the release date or on the release date.

BK: Yeah

SR: Yeah, we, we, we talked about doing a longer rollout, but I think the album did take us so long to make, and we’re kind of itching to get out there and play the songs live. And really wanted to have the album out there when we did that that um, you know.

We were kind of like let’s just do two Uh, and let’s let’s just then just like put the whole thing out Um, and we’ve got of course we have video stuff planned for after that

BK: Yeah

SR: As as really everyone should um, if you’re making an album, you don’t want to just put out the album and then just you know, Play shows you want to have some cool stuff coming.

BK: Yeah

SR: We’re playing actually video the Jammin Java show. And like hopefully put out some uh some songs from that in the future and A bunch of other stuff like that.

JK: You said you’re going to video the show do are you going to have live recordings as well or…

SR: Yeah. We’re going to do video and get you know, we’re going to get the actual audio and try and you know. Pull off a cool mix. Um, you know if anything we’ll have. 

You know 30 second clip on instagram. We’ll have the only good 30 seconds from the show Just kidding. Well, it’s you know Yeah, all those elements have to work. I’ve actually never produced anything like this. So i’ll be curious We may have a whole live album. Who knows?

BK: Yeah, 

SR: But um You know, I I do I I just feel really strongly that anyone who comes to our shows can video anything they want and put it on the internet immediately. It’s always kind of a buzz kill when you’re at a show and someone’s like, Hey, I’m going to play this new song, but like, don’t video it.

I don’t like video shows, but you know, I’m kind of like, man, it’s, it’s a, that’s a moment that’s like never going to happen again. And it’s cool. If someone documents it to me, that’s, that’s just my, my thing. Um, But I also wouldn’t understand why someone did that. But yeah, people can come to our shows, take videos, send them to us.Like, we would love, love that. 

BK: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.