Shelly Means’ whole life might be falling apart. Her relationships with her husband, therapist, social circle, and even her dog are becoming strained, but she can fix all of it if she can just finish building her beach house in the Hamptons. Amy Fusselman’s new novel The Means is a satirical take on wealth and the oh so many stresses that stem from it. I was lucky enough to get to talk with Amy about the novel, as well as about writing humor as a whole.

Walt: I wanted to talk about writing for humor sites because a lot of our readers are also humor writers. I know you’ve been previously published in McSweeney’s.

Amy: Yeah, I’ve had a long relationship with McSweeney’s. They published my first Book, The Pharmacist’s Mate in 2001. Dave actually edited it. I’ve published things with them from time to time and it’s been thrilling to see how the site has evolved.

Walt: Knowing they published your book might make this next question seem a little backwards, but I wanted to ask about the big differences between writing short-form humor like an article versus writing a nonfiction book or novel.

Amy: The question is still valid because I did try to write short humor and try to get it placed, before I took on the task of writing a novel.

Walt: What are some of the unexpected challenges? Are there things that no longer work or things that you brought over from the shorter writing that did work?

Amy: I feel like the thing that’s most useful about short-form for me, is deepening the voice. I was sort of trying to land on how I was going to approach this narrator. Is it going to be first person or third person, and if it’s first person, what is she going to sound like? I actually published a few things in the Washington Post and I feel like those pieces were the closest to how the book sounds. They were the things that made me think “okay, I’ve found the tone that I want.

Walt: What were the pieces about?

Amy: My favorite one was during the pandemic I wrote one about figuring out that the person I’d been playing Scrabble against was a robot. My son was like “yeah mom it’s a robot.” So it’s kind of the idea that the narrator doesn’t know everything and the world is sort of awry. I wrote another about how having braces as an adult is actually really cool and makes you more useful. Those were really fun to do and I feel like they helped me find the tonal area where I could stay for the long haul of the book.

Walt: Why did you want to make the switch from nonfiction writing to a straight-up fiction novel?

Amy: I love experimental nonfiction, weird essayist stuff, and I love writing in the first person. My last book was the most experimental thing I’ve ever written and it made me want to try this other thing that it felt like everyone else was out there doing. Like, what the hell is this thing they’re doing with plot and story? I’m a writer and I love writing so let’s try it.

Walt: Let’s finally talk about the book. Even though it is pure fiction, it is very detailed, especially in the way it talks about the turmoil of real estate. As I read, I hit a spot where I literally put the book down and wrote a note that said “ask Amy if she went through some sort of real estate nightmare.”

Amy: It feels like 2022 is a great time to be writing about real estate because it seems like everybody has a story. The housing market is a shit show. It’s one of the most ripe places to see the results of economic inequality. People are scratching and clawing to have or sell starter homes and mega mansions. Housing is bananas right now. I do have a real estate story, which is that I have a storage container beach house. My experience wasn’t nearly as dramatic as the one in the story but I knew enough to write about it specifically because I went through it.

Walt: My favorite takeaway from this interview will definitely be that you have a shipping container beach house. Is it bad that by the end of the book I secretly wanted one?

Amy: Hell no! Everyone should have a shipping container beach house.

Walt: If the real estate aspects are grounded in realism, let’s talk about the other side of the book. There are some absurdist characters and situations where it feels like you push things further into the bizarre. George has my favorite running gag of the book, which is his job as a voiceover artist. There’s a whole second story happening off-screen of George navigating the cut throat world of voiceovers.

Amy: I know, right. I don’t even know if that’s a real job, I just wanted something unimaginably cushy.

Walt: So, how did you balance that? Did you find yourself approaching a line where you felt like it could get too far into the absurd, or does that line even exist in a comedic work like this?

Amy: I’ve said this before, but I feel like a comedy lurker. I’m not a comedian and this is the first overtly humorous thing I’ve written. I’m interested in comedy and I feel like my interests as a writer often line-up with what humorists are doing. Humorists want to drag shit into the light. They make us laugh and recognize the weird things we didn’t think about before. I think that kind of recognition is beautiful. So, in the comedy I find that I love and the writing I love, it often feels like there isn’t such a thing as too far. If I think I’m going too far, that’s a good sign because for me the problem is more often not going far enough. For me, I want to get crazier with each thing. You should lose your mind with your project.

Walt: I’ll take that advice… Without giving too much away, the book has repetitions and is even cyclical to some extent. When writing something that is by design about going in circles, how do you get a feel for when to bring in new developments or have big moments of progression?

Amy: That’s a great question. I’d say those were the hardest bits of mass for me to figure out. As a first time novelist it was really different to be like “okay, this has to be structured.” It’s not an essay. I can’t just write stuff. The basement has to be connected to the parlor which has to be connected to the second floor, you know. I love momentum and I feel like my favorite writing is stuff that feels like it goes 100 miles per hour. I wanted to create that pace, where it feels like you are just going to fly through it. Even though there is repetition I didn’t want it to feel like you’re standing still. It keeps coming at you but in slightly different ways. In regards to your question, it was in the editing that the bulk of those decisions were made. Saying “this needs more momentum here” or “we need a little pause here.” Those things are intuitive to an extent but that is where the work was.

Walt: Of all the wackier side characters surrounding the protagonist, who was your favorite to write?

Amy: I had a lot of fun with Kat, the financial Tarot reader. I also like Alice, her real estate broker/therapist. It was really fun to have a narrator who is trying to deal with shit but everyone around her is kind of preying on her and selling her on stuff. That’s what we live in. You buy your friends’ shit. If they start an MLM you probably buy some face cream.

Walt: With the book being a satire, I wanted to ask about why you chose these “targets,” per se. What about privilege or upper middle class socialite families drew you in?

Amy: Good question. I don’t feel like it’s something that’s so pointed. I am a white person and I do want a beach house. It was an opportunity for me to explore the landscape that I operate in and live in and don’t think about. I decided early in that no matter what was going on I was going to strip everything down to where the money is. Where is the money in this scene. I wanted money in every scene because that’s true. Every interaction you have has money involved somehow. Who paid who for what? Whose got what? Whose trying to get what? That’s always operating. Always. Even if I was a monk in France I’d be eschewing money so I’d still have a position on it. So there is satire and it’s insane, but I like to think there is compassion. That’s ultimately what I feel towards all the characters.

Walt: I think there is a lot of heart in it. I think as it goes on it becomes easier to emphasize with Shelley… Before we wrap, is there anything you wish I’d asked about the book or any general plugging you’d like to do?

Amy: Well, I have to get a plug in for care work. It’s subtle in the book, but free care work is a bed rock of capitalism. It’s how we nurture each other. It’s how we care for one another when we’re doing well or not doing well. Women are proportionally the largest member of the care work force. I just want to point it out. Women are shouldering a lot of care work and it’s really hard. The people that do it well are underpaid and it’s so fucking important.

The means is available now from Amazon or from your local bookstore:

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The post The Means: A Conversation With Author Amy Fusselman About Her New Novel. appeared first on Robot Butt.