Mr. Mullis, climate protectors and activists have been fighting for the preservation of the village of Lützerath for weeks. They have left their familiar surroundings, are staying in huts, tree houses and tents – and since the police evicted their protest has become a feat of strength. What motivates people to do this?

A very central reason is that they want to send a signal that Climate policy cannot go on like this. The window is closing to actually meet the 1.5 degree target. The protesters are reminding us of this, in some cases very vehemently.

What do such experiences do to the protesters – doesn’t all that cause a lot of stress?

Protracted protests are a challenge for everyone involved. I researched the 2011 Athens square occupations during the European debt crisis. At first there was a lot of euphoria, the hope of helping to shape a more socially just and democratic society. There was no success. It was sobering to see what that did to people. Resignation, withdrawal and loss of trust were widespread, precisely because the crisis was becoming extremely burdensome both socially and economically. The feeling of not being heard politically also leaves its mark on committed people in this country. What suffers is trust in democracy, although most continue to believe in democratic processes. Many speak of radicalization, but in the long run this retreat from democracy is more dramatic.

Is it possible that the protesters in Lützerath fare similarly?

Of course, the protests in Athens took place in a different context, so a direct comparison is not possible. But these negative feelings could also spread among the people in Lützerath or among Climate Activists as a whole. It now depends on how these protests turn out, what they do indirectly politically and how they are subsequently evaluated by the activists themselves.

In Lützerath, the chances of success of the protest are rather low – at least when it comes to stopping the eviction. What makes the activists hold on to their protest?

If you look at the pictures on site or at other protest events, it becomes clear that a protest does not only mean stress and exhaustion. It is also a collective process. To stand up for a goal together, to tackle such a big campaign, to stand together on the street or in these fields, to cook together and to support each other is also a very positive experience. Protests can therefore also generate a very strong sense of community. They are places where people also experience a we.

Can you compensate for the stress with this sense of community?

Certainly. Of course, the stress still remains, especially when, as in the last few days, the evacuation continues at night and there is no respite. But there is now a greater awareness of such experiences in many movements. For example, there are active stress management groups aimed at people who have had traumatic experiences dealing with the police.

There have also been riots during the ongoing evacuation of the village. Are protesters even aware of this risk?

Certainly there were occasional stone throws and attacks on the police. Overall, things have been mostly peaceful so far. People get in the way with their bodies, occupy houses, trees and hides. They are definitely prepared for the fact that they can also experience violence during the evacuation. Many of the local people may have also taken part in other protests. They know about the dynamics that take place on both sides in such actions. It is important here, especially for acceptance, that the protest remains peaceful at the level of civil disobedience. At the same time, the police also have a duty not to injure people, to implement the promised de-escalation, to let paramedics do their work on site and to ensure access for journalists.

Climate activists have also been involved in other forms of protest in the past, such as hunger strikes. Why do you risk your own health in such a way?

People choose to do that themselves. Often such decisions arise from feelings of no other choice or experiences of deep injustice. With their actions, they try to persuade politicians to take action. To do this, some also risk their own integrity to a certain extent. We are currently observing this in many movements that are forming in connection with the climate.

What does it do to outsiders if they experience the protesters in the reports like this?

There are very different reactions to this. As is well known, some react with incomprehension to the actions of climate activists or openly reject them as “climate terrorism”. The protests also inspire other people to get involved in climate protection. The protests about the Hambach Forest have also become a similar symbol for climate protection. And the persistence of Fridays for Future, these weeks of stoic protests has certainly helped people join the fight for the climate. Or that some are at least now thinking about the climate crisis who may not have been before.

Does that mean that the protests for the climate activists can also be successful if they cannot prevent the eviction of Lützerath?

I think so. Lützerath will probably be evacuated. The cast can only delay that. A stop would require political will, and that seems to be lacking. The protest is not just about Lützerath – it points to a bigger problem. The hamlet is symbolic of the 1.5 degree limit that must be respected, for the sake of all of us. And that’s why we’re fighting with a lot of effort. So the climate activists are fighting a very real fight in a symbolic place.

But how long can they – even in view of the immense stress – endure such a situation?

That is hard to say. The activists sometimes talked for six weeks, others estimated two to four weeks. Whether they will succeed remains to be seen. From the outside you can already see that the police have advanced very quickly and very far. Local protesters will surely stay as long as possible. The feeling of not being alone there helps them, but also the nationwide encouragement they experience.