Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of The Bilna Sandeep Show. As you all know, I am Bilna Sandeep, a civil engineer and have worked in the construction industry for 12 plus years. And that is why I launched our marketing agency called “Built Market Lab”. And today, I have a very special guest who is also a client for our Built Market Lab, especially since he was the very first client for Built Market Lab.

And when it comes to the construction industry, it’s a very old and traditional industry, right? It’s been there ever since men started civilization, when they started building homes for themselves. So, it’s a very old industry, but over the years it has developed, and a lot of construction and a lot of technology has happened in the construction industry. So, today’s guest, Ibrahim Hegazy, is a very special guest who I’m bringing to you, who is a construction technology expert, especially in the digital side of construction.

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Bilna: Hi Ibrahim, welcome to our show. How are you today?

Ibrahim: Hi Bilna, it’s great. Thanks. It’s a pleasure to be here with you.

Bilna: Thank you. So, I would like to hear from you; who is Ibrahim, and what is your speciality? Let our audience know about it.

Introduction

Ibrahim: Who is Ibrahim, and what is his speciality? This is a big question, but let’s make it short. Ibrahim is a man who’s come from Egypt to the UAE for more than 15 years and has tried to find a chance. I worked in the beginning for a construction company. I came with some experience in technology and construction, which was a little bit at that time. So slowly, I tried to build my knowledge here. And you know, UAE, in general, it’s a very competitive environment. So, everyone, you have to develop yourself. And this is actually my way of surviving. So, I try to develop myself slowly and try to understand the environment around me.

So, I believe that everyone has a path in his life. So sometimes you select, and sometimes you are taken to that one.

Bilna: Were you taken or did you choose it?

Ibrahim:  I think it’s a small selection, which is what we are doing during our journey. So that will lead us to wherever we are at that point. So, I spotted myself today in between technology and construction. It wasn’t a plan at the beginning. I like technology and have started a big part of my life as a programmer. I’m a certified Microsoft Professional Programmer. But unfortunately, I don’t like that one. It’s very hard; it needs different types of people, which is like how I usually like people.

So, I take another direction for sales and marketing, which I like more. So, I keep working. But the industry which I targeted at that time was the construction industry. So, when I go to the construction, we find a lack of technology. Most of the engineers are stuck, especially since I started here around 2009, so I saw people who were focused on AutoCAD, Primavera, and Excel. So, they have hard copies, and they are stuck on them. So, I take that path.

I know this is a message, which is why I help people do it. I have a friend who worked in that field. I keep advising them,” There is software that can help you.” Unfortunately, engineers are stuck with their businesses for a long time. So slowly, I got a vision. So, I need to help those people. So, I’m stuck with them on many projects to understand their business more. I stick with them to ask them, what are your problems? So that built my journey.

So, after I finished understanding the construction and technology environment or industry, I finished my master’s degree. And when I do the master’s degree, the thesis, which is after we finish, we have to provide a study. It was about failure stories for implementing ERP systems for construction companies in Dubai. Why? Because I saw many companies, they are spending millions of Dirhams, and it’s failed. So, this is an area in which I can help people. So, I studied why and checked when I knew that 70% of the companies had failed to implement the ERP correctly for the construction industry. And there are so many reasons.

So, I’m not a guy who likes to study too much, but when I start studying, I like it. So, after that, I start another journey, which will stick around four years from now for a doctorate degree. I recently finished it in January. Actually, I graduated and finished my thesis as well in January. But they recently released the certificate. So, I’m happy!

Bilna: So, are you a life-time learner too?

Ibrahim: Yeah, not that much. But I find that a path to learning new things. We can see that in the new generation, there are a lot of things better than us. So, if we stop, then we are lost. We will not be in the same places. So, this is my career. So, this is Ibrahim as a person I can see because I’ve spent more than 20 years at work right now. So, I can present myself as an expert in construction and technology.

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Software’s Benefits In The Construction Industry

Bilna: This is amazing. So, when I hear about construction. They go by the books, like.. they’ve been doing something for the years and they keep doing the same thing, a lot of construction companies, right? So, when it comes to implementing software solutions in their business and as a business development person yourself for your company, how do you find? Is it difficult to convince people to buy the new software, and invest in a new system? How does that work?

Ibrahim: To be honest, engineers are one of the most difficult people to convince them to do everything. By nature, they are like they know everything.

Bilna: I am an engineer too…!

Ibrahim: Yeah, I know that. So also, by the way, my brother is a civil engineer. He was working on a big site right now. So, he’s suffering under the sun. So usually the discussion with them is not one way. So, you need to listen to them first to learn from them first. You know what their problems are exactly. Even not a problem. Sometimes they need to express what they are. Think it helped them. OK. Maybe it’s not correct, but you need to listen because they are sure that they know their industry and they are most of them. They are very smart. They are hard workers at the same time, working under pressure. So, with that work environment, they’ll be like,” Who are you to come and say to me that you have some solution? I’m educated enough to know”. So, of course, this is not all the people. But when I try to analyse why they are doing that one, actually, because they work under very strong pressure. Most of them suffered a lot during the work, even people whose work in DCC…okay. Oh, the sun…!

Bilna: Yeah, it’s very hot and I think it’s very hard.

Ibrahim: Yes, yes, yes.

Bilna: Whenever I have gone to my site walks, I’m like, I come back and the whole day is gone. Then I can’t do anything. So, I totally understand. So, the mindset is very frustrating sometimes. And when you walk in to sell something, it is a challenge, right? to do that with them, or do they just get convinced very quickly?

Ibrahim: Not very quickly. People in that field need, first of all, to be convinced by logic. They follow the logic. And they respect the numbers and outcome. And they will not accept anything without trial. So, we have to give them the idea first, and it must be a logical idea that solves their problems. The second thing is that they have to provide that trial. They need to try something. So usually, those guys touch things with their hands on the sites. So, they are qualified enough to evaluate something if they try it. And I have a journey, which I can say has crossed more than one thousand companies right now. Plus, I visited them. I have to imagine around 15 years every day. I have almost had three visits or three discussions with a different construction company. I can say that in the UAE and a lot of GCC companies, even some companies in Egypt, Sudan, and Africa. I visited them. So, I have thousands of people, which is why I have attracted more than 750 clients to our company. Yeah, it’s a good number because I found that formula. How you speak to them and how you find the solution for them. Those people, like anyone else, need help. But if you offer the thing in a proper way, sure, 100 percent of the time they will accept it and use it.

Bilna: It’s more like they should see what benefit they’re getting and then they invest into it?

Ibrahim: Not only the benefits, because they are expecting the benefit, but it must be better than what they have right now.

Bilna: Okay. How does their life, I mean, how their professional life changes because of that, right?

Ibrahim: Exactly. Exactly. We can say the impact.

How Does Construction Software Help Quantity Surveyors

Bilna: Would you like to tell us a bit more about which software you are selling from your company? What different software are you representing?

Ibrahim: Yeah. So, we started our journey in our company by asking questions first. Actually, we have so many failure stories in between. So, at the beginning of that company, the management tried to invent a new thing. It took time, effort, investment, and money. When that product comes to the market, people reject it.

I realized that you need to start the business with your client, not with your ideas. So don’t bring something from your shelf and try to offer it. No. Go to the street and ask your audience what they need. Try to invent it. Go back to your lab and invent it. So actually, this is what I learned after a lot of mistakes.

Bilna: Mistakes are what actually help us grow.

Ibrahim: Yes, exactly. So, we started to ask people when we go to the construction company, especially at the start, who is the most under pressure here? Most of them say, quantity surveyors.

Bilna: I was a quantity surveyor myself.

Ibrahim: And now we can understand why Bilna left that field.

Bilna: Probably.

Ibrahim: It’s very stressful. It needs a lot of very big knowledge. Update yourself. Connection with every department.

Bilna: We call ourselves the shock absorbers of the company, because there’s pressure from the project department, there’s pressure from the accounting department, finance department, everybody. So, we are the ones who take all the shocks in and our families probably suffer.

Ibrahim: And everything has a mistake even in the end of the project. So it’s a mistake of calculation of the quantity surveyors.

Bilna: Yes, if the project goes into loss, they say the quantity surveyors did.

Ibrahim: If some audiences don’t know who the quantity surveyor is, they are the ones who calculate the quantities of the project at the beginning. So, he starts from the drawings, he starts to get the material take off. How much is the material? How many doors? How many windows? How many sockets, diffusers, all of that thing, which is around you now. OK, so those guys from the drawings have to extract it exactly. So, the company goes to purchase based on that one. So, one mistake cost a lot of money. So those guys must be accurate and fast at the same time, because usually there is a deadline. To be accurate and fast, both do not come together. Definitely no for any business. But those guys—this is because of that pressure—a lot of them work after working time, so it’s not easy for them.

So, one of our engineers who is working in our company thought, Let’s find a solution for those guys. Just do one thing, which is that I advise all people to do a search on Google. If you find a problem, please do a search. Open Google and search for the best software for quantity surveying. Where did they go? You find a company from the USA that started two years back to invent software and has a lot of good reviews, so he makes contact for them. We want to see your software. He brings it, and it’s a journey here, which is where I started in that company to go visit the QS. “Hello, I have a solution. Want to see it? OK, you want to evaluate, take it for two weeks. OK, thumbs up. That’s good. It’s all about problems. Save your time” Yes. So, here comes the first successful step, which is a software named PlanSwift. Most of the quantity surveyors know it right now.

Bilna: That wasn’t the scenario when you started, right? Now it’s established in the UAE; everybody knows what exactly it is in the construction industry.

Ibrahim: So, I can give myself and my company and team credit for that one because, really, we are doing very hard work, especially at the beginning. People do not believe that it is software that can help me do anything. OK, I have seen people open the hard copy and use this magnifier to check the details and even the scale and pencils. So, it takes a lot of time to calculate one item. So, imagine if I told you there is something like that, so you can count many items at once.

So, people, even sometimes, this is the challenge when we speak about their experiences, especially. Some people don’t like to find solutions to make others better than them. OK, even one guy told me, “I have 21 years of experience. You will come with that software, and you mention you are better than me?” Tell them, no, with that software, if you have experience, you will be better than anyone else because you have experience, but to be honest, the new generation doesn’t have that mindset. OK, I’m from a generation that plays only hand games, so there is no technology. OK, so sometimes it’s difficult before, but these days, with awareness of the technology, everyone has his mobile. He understands that we have a lot of things, like AI and blah, blah, blah. So, all of that can help. So, people change their minds. This is one of our software products, which is named PlanSwift. I think you see it as I saw it before as a QS, and you evaluate it and give me good feedback.

Bilna: Yes. Yes.

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How Does Construction Software Help Estimators

Ibrahim: So, this is one. We have also gone to the second step. The second one works under pressure. The company is an estimator. So, if you are in the construction industry, you will know that there is a BOQ: bill of quantity or bill of material. So that one has two columns. The first one is quantity. The second is rate. To calculate the rate, it needs experience, site experience, knowledge of the market, updated prices, and breakdown analysis. So many things. Most people depend on two things, even Excel, which is fine. OK, others depend on their experience. Someone told me, what is that software? I just look at the drawing, smell it, and put the selling price on it. So, he didn’t accept it at the beginning. But after that, he became a fan. Cost estimate software allows you to make a breakdown analysis for your BOQ items costs. So it’s easy for anyone to understand the real price. How much exactly do you pay? And you can stop at any time.

Bilna: So, you have the proper cost control of the project at every stage.

Ibrahim: This is the most important. The second thing is people who depend on Excel. Excel is a great tool. Usually, I say that this is the third and most important thing in our lives, after electricity and a computer Excel sheet.

Bilna:  I can relate to it very well.

Ibrahim:  Yes, everyone working in any field uses Excel. If you are a student, accountant, engineer, or doctor, you are using Excel. Yes. OK. Even if you use big systems, you export to Excel at the end of the day. So, Excel is good, but it doesn’t have that reporting power. So, you cannot easily generate reports from that one because it’s not a spreadsheet. Actually, because of that, people start with spreadsheets. OK, and the art goes to developing that database. Usually, the software has database data in it, and you can take that out.

Bilna: Which is into Excel back again. Yes.

Ibrahim: And here is some software, named ‘Bitbox’, which is used by estimators to make breakdown analyses and help management get reports. And also, as you mentioned, cost control. I can do cost control for my project when it becomes a job on hand. This is also the second version of our software.

Bilna: And then do you have more? I think anybody who has an issue in construction, they could probably come to you and you might have an off the shelf solution. Probably.

Ibrahim: Yes, actually, yes. This was a dream. We started with one software, but I would like to make the company look like a supermarket

Bilna: One stop solution for your construction digitization issues, right?

Ibrahim: Yes. Right. And the good thing is that a small software which can serve one person. So, as you see, quantity surveyors who are suffering for quantities, can use plan Swift and estimators can go and now we have a very great software. It’s boom. OK, I recommend everyone to read about it. The name is ‘OpenSpace’.

Bilna: Oh, nice.

OpenSpace AI in Construction

Ibrahim: So, I was in Saudi Arabia for a couple of weeks. Masha Allah, I can see that very big construction boom there. But they have a problem. If you are in Riyadh itself, you can move inside the city from position to position and from place to place. You can take two hours. Inside Riyadh itself, which is one city, you spend two hours to go maybe from your head office in the middle of the country or whatever. And you will go to the site office, to the project, or to the site, which will take a lot of your time—two hours. Imagine it’s a small idea why you have to go if you are a project manager and why I can bring the project to a computer screen.

Bilna: That’s huge. I think the same in Dubai as well. The traffic is very high.

Ibrahim: Yes, the traffic is very high. And now Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid has announced a new Nakhla, the new Palm, which will be released. And you know that type of project. OK, there are privileges you need to go inside and permissions and times you can see, and if you go to the site inside the Sun, you burn your head.

Bilna: So, the whole day is gone after that.

Ibrahim: Exactly. So, the solution, which we offer right now, is Open Space. You can only send one inspector or maybe a labour. And his helmet will put a three hundred sixty camera like Google Street and he will move in the site once he finishes clicking his mobile. So, if I’m a project manager, I can see the project on my computer screen. If you are a gamer, you will enjoy it too much. So, you can move inside the project. You can see the details of that project.

Bilna: It’s like I’m walking the site, just sitting at my table.

Ibrahim:  Yes. And imagine you can see the flooring, ceiling, ceiling, flooring and left and right and see everything like a 360-degree view. And it’s recorded. So you save yourself. And you can add control and supervision. So, if I go to find something not installed in a proper way, what will I do? OK, usually I go to the site, take a photo, if I’m a site engineer and go back to my home, my office and connect the mobile to the laptop, download the file, make a report and take a lot of time. No, no need to open your laptop. You’ll find the project. Go to the room or the floor, which you want. Click on it, make a flag note, send it to the concerned person. If it’s your subcontractor, if it’s a safety officer, if it’s quality control. So, you can manage the project and it will be saved. And the good thing, the progress. OK, so surely you are a civil engineer and you know how much is the main question. What you do on the site. OK, So I can show my progress. This is what happened in January and this is what happened in June. Yes. And the software can split the screen in between…

Bilna:  …and you can see exactly the progress from the date to date.

Ibrahim: Exactly. It’s really amazing. I like it. The good thing is that there is no human doing that comparison. The AI does that comparison. Artificial intelligence.

Bilna:  I think it’s going to change the whole phase of the weekly or monthly progress meetings on site. There’s no more room for argument. This was not done. This is done. It’s all on the screen. You just put it on the screen.

Ibrahim: Exactly.

It will be like taking your client and consultant and going to the cinema. You will show the project as a movie.

Bilna: So, I think it saves a lot of man hours as well, because otherwise, like you said, the engineer has to go, then he has to take the photo and the next person he has to show. So, it’s all in one click.

Ibrahim: Not only that, Bilna, but there’s something that blows my mind in that system. Yes, it can calculate the executed quantity from the image video. It can tell you how much the ceiling is installed in the project or the flooring.

Bilna: So that saves the quantity surveyors as well.

Ibrahim: Yes, for the site, Yes. It will make it easy. You have a progress report. And that one can be linked to schedule. So, you will understand exactly how much you executed already and how much is remaining. Some people, you know, waste a lot of time getting a report like that. Well, you can let artificial intelligence do it for you. No need to do that much effort. So, we can see here that the system can compare between what you have as an executed image or video and the BIM model.

Bilna: Oh, nice. OK, so it integrates with everything you have.

Ibrahim: Yeah, BIM 360, other systems like Procore, cloud-based systems. If you are a project manager, please be a witness for the change of the era of project management as well as the progress management. So that system will change the game.

Bilna: I can definitely see that, you know, in the ways you have already said, I can imagine the project, progress, meetings and every document and everything that gets simpler by this.

Ibrahim: And everything will get automatically because one inspector or a labourer goes to the site. And he takes a tour while he has a camera in his helmet. That’s it.

Construction Project Management and Revenue

Bilna: So, it’s going to save you time, resources and everything. So now let’s come back to the revenue side of construction. Like, you know, this software which you are selling. As an owner of a construction company or from the developer side, as a client side, how does it impact their revenue or the cost like these softwares? Like, you know, how does it compare to not using software versus when they use their software?

Ibrahim: Actually, this is the thesis of my Doctorate degree. The impact of technology and construction companies also. And so, I think we cannot get real numbers. But let’s say the construction is a game of control. If I control my quantities at the beginning, when I do the calculation, when I control the budget, when I spend it on the project, and when I control the man hours, which we will spend, this is a game of control. I estimate something based on my experience. I can finish that building in that time at that cost. OK. You need something to track that one. If you achieve your target, you will make money. But if you lose it, there will be a big gap. And I know many companies, project by project, end to end, only discover at the end of the project that they are at a loss. Why?

Bilna: Because there’s no proper tracking system.

Ibrahim: Yes. No tracking system, no cost control. And everything comes in a paper and it’s all over the place. Yeah, it’s very difficult to control. Again, management of construction. I think the most important thing is control, how I can control my resources. OK, even manpower, even equipment. So, there I study a lot of software in construction, even not in our company, but it has become a passion for me to learn about it. And also, I’m hired as a lecturer in some institutes and some authorities. So, for that purpose, to show people how technology can have an impact. I will give you some examples during our discussion about how it can save not only money, but mistakes.

Bilna: Yes. And mistakes are money.

Ibrahim: Too much money. OK. Imagine a small mistake while you are doing the quantities, when you go to the mission, it becomes bigger. When you decide to execute it, it becomes bigger. If the developer or the owner of the project finds it, it will be a huge loss for the company. It will announce so many cases for arbitration and in the courts because of errors, the errors and mistakes which have happened. Maybe a small engineer, fresh graduated one makes a small mistake and quantities against add ninety, make it nine. And some of the material is really very expensive. So, if we talk about bumps for oil and gas projects. Millions of millions.

So, I know one company while they are calculating the quantity, one of the quantity surveyors, he forgets one floor to calculate.

Bilna: It’s gone. Vanished in the air.

Ibrahim: But they won that project and when they go to the project side and start to execute, they find that big gap. So here it’s a game again. It’s a game of control. If you control your resources, you will have control…

Bilna: Right from that pre contract stage to the execution and completion.

Ibrahim: Exactly. So, you will get revenue. Yes. OK. And the revenue will not be only the money; it will also be the manpower, which is why I have an engineer who will be well educated. They can do extra work. I will have a chance to win more bits and more projects. So, this is also…

Bilna:  …making their life easier and saving their time. You can use them for better projects and more projects.

Ibrahim: Yes. And this is a vision. Also, most of the management—they must have some construction management, as you told me—I pay for their salaries. Let them do the work.No.  If we are to do hard work without any enjoyment. OK, so…

Bilna: It doesn’t sustain for long.

Ibrahim: Yes. And sure, I will make mistakes. And most of the people, even when we hire some people, we are ready to work under pressure. OK, but what will be your output under pressure?  OK, it will be sure..

Bilna: At the end of the day, they are humans themselves, right?

Ibrahim: Yes, we are humans. We have to enjoy it. Thank God. One of the greatest gifts I have in my life is that I go to work happy and go back happy. I don’t have anything in between to put pressure on. I hope that all people have the same. Technology in the construction industry, especially, can do that and can remove a big part of that stress because, with a lot of hard work, we will ignore a lot of data entry and a lot of other things, so we can remove that.

Why People Matter in Business

Bilna: So as a construction software expert, though we are talking about the software, I can see that throughout the conversation, you are very people focused. You are thinking about the end user. You’re thinking about the people in the game, right? And as a client as well, I’ve seen you like over a one year period now I’ve seen that you always give importance to people like you have your team outings. You have, you know, even Iftars, not just your team; you invite your suppliers as well. So, you see people as people. That’s something I’ve seen as great. So, could you explain like, how do you do that? You know, that’s a great strategy, actually, because people want to work with you. So how do you do that?

Ibrahim: To be honest, it’s not a strategy.

Bilna: You love people I think. I can see that; you know even when you are talking.

Ibrahim: I have a lot of friends. They like cars. OK, and material, and they are touchy with that thing. But really, humans are the most amazing product that we can see. OK, a lot of dimensions. And everyone you see and deal with learns from each other. So, I’ve worked in a number of companies in the past, and I was not treated well. I was going in the morning, not happy or sad, and also leaving, which is every day. I told myself. “I will not come again”. But we need money in the end. So, we will come again. This is the reason.

Bilna:  But if you had a choice, you would go to some better company.

Technology Secrets

Ibrahim:  Yes. And again, as you mentioned, this is a strategy, which we have to apply to sustain the business. OK, which is usually focused on the customer because the customer is a human. If he’s satisfied, he depends on you. Also, especially in technology, if you go for technology and I tell you I will tell you a secret, which is I realized maybe some of you know, if you go to purchase from any retail shop right now, any device, OK, you will find the guy who’s there, and he will try to convince you it’s one of their products only. So, if you go for a laptop, you have HP, Lenovo, etc. OK, so one of them will come and convince you to purchase Lenovo and say it’s the best. Yes. OK, even it’s higher, but you know, the function here and there. We trust people when we use technology. I realize that the brands they hire those people in the retail shops.

Bilna: Yes, yes, yes. It’s not their retail shops. Employees are hired by the brands.

Ibrahim:  Exactly. Yes, I go one day to purchase a fridge. In the morning, one guy told me this was the best seller. No doubt. This is the best. I told him I would think about it and come back in the afternoon. I came back to purchase it. OK, so I found another guy. No, this is rubbish. No one purchases that one. Purchase that brand.

Bilna: Oh, in the same shop you’re getting two different options.

Ibrahim: Exactly the same spot and two fridges next to each other. So, in the morning, it is the best seller,in the afternoon, it’s the second one. So here I realize that we don’t trust technology because usually we don’t know what is inside. We don’t have an experience in that one. So, we depend on the person.

Bilna: Person who is selling it.

Ibrahim:This is one. Second, if you are working with a team, there is no need to work under pressure. So, we need to identify what the people’s capabilities are and keep them enhanced. As you see, we like to go on outings. This is breaking a lot of things. We are doing our team’s weekly training. We are all gathering and getting training for something—communication, discussion, and so on. And we hire a professional to do that one for us. So this is one person to person , because when they are happy, they will make the customer happy. I will be happy, as will my kids and my family.

Bilna: Everybody is happy.

Ibrahim: So, I think it’s a target for life. If you go to a restaurant or a coffee shop and find people who are sad and do not serve you in a good way, please ask them, do you get your salary on time? Are you happy with your income or the management? They treat you in a proper way? You will not find that one happens. So as a customer, I don’t like to go again to that place. So first of all, it’s human to human. We have to respect that one. The second thing is to help sustain the business. Actually, I think I’m here with you because we’ve had a good partnership for a long time.

Managing a Sales Team

Bilna: So, I think you value relationships more, like even if it’s your clients, your suppliers, or your own team, it’s always the relationships that matter. And when it comes to your team selling for you, right, like you can’t be everywhere. You have your team doing the sales for you. How do you make sure your company principles, how do you make sure they also follow the same? Like, you know, how do you support them in the sales process and achieving their goals?

Ibrahim: As we mentioned, we are humans. We sometimes make mistakes or break the rules. This is nature. And we have to understand that one. So, we have to do two things: control and educate. And both must be on a regular basis. So, it must be continuous. So usually, for sales, we have a process that is controlled by CRM.

Bilna:  CRM system, automated follow ups, automated everything.

Ibrahim: And even I’m a user of a lot of software. So, we need that type of software to maintain the relationship and make everything clear. So, we have a big dashboard for everyone in our company. He opened his mobile. He can see his performance, his meetings, his daily work, his comments related to others. Other team members. What is the task? So, everything is clear. Thanks to technology. It helps us to do that. And also, it’s added less pressure for one like me who’s have a team to.

Bilna: So, you have a dashboard that shows everyone what they are up to and what’s happening.

Ibrahim: Everyone can see himself, performance and self in his dashboard.

Bilna: OK. So, nobody wakes up getting confused about what to do. It’s all there in his dashboard.

Ibrahim: Yes. And if one gets a raise or someone gets a bonus, he understands why because his dashboard is higher than the others. No one will come and say, “I do hard work”. You are not hardworking. The numbers say something different.

Bilna:  Results driven, performance driven kind of, right?

Ibrahim: Exactly. And that will also lessen the interference during the control between the team leader or manager and his team. And that also removes stress.

Bilna: You are not micromanaging them; they know how to do and what to do, right?

Ibrahim: Even though we have seniors in our company and because I’ve worked for the same company for more than 15 years. So, I have the most experience. So, when we have a newcomer, usually I give him everything I know. And ask seniors to do the same. Everyone gives him whatever he can do. You have to mix it up and take in his style. I believe that the way I do sales or presentations is a very good fit for me. But sometimes some people don’t like it. They can mention.” Ibrahim you are speaking loudly or in a fast way I don’t like”. So, we have to respect that one. We will not be able to satisfy everyone. But we have to do the maximum. So, everyone in our company has to take that legacy, that knowledge, which we can provide, and…

Bilna: …build it himself.

Ibrahim: Yeah. I told you something. The idea, which is that I like it and we do, I ask everyone in my team to make a video and record every single thing they’re doing in the company as a training. If we have a newcomer, we don’t give him training. We give him access to the videos. If you want to know sales, this is if you want to do training, if you want to use CRM, if you want to know the process. So, in the video, he cannot see one face, but many faces. So, he can also interact with his colleagues. 

And we are training each other. So, who’s the best in using a process or making the process? He gives training to each other, and the training is continuous. We try to learn from each other and educate each other. So, I think that we are like a family in our company, not in hard business. But of course, this is a business where we need to work hard. Sometimes we need to push the people to at least achieve what they have to because, for most of our team, they are very skilled people. They have a lot of skills and previous knowledge and understanding from two different worlds because our work is a little bit difficult because we are not engineers or construction guys, and we are not IT guys. So, we are in something in between. Yeah. Usually, I tell them we are the glow, which makes both words connected to each other.

Saudi Construction Market Vs UAE Construction Market

Bilna: That’s amazing. And now coming back to the construction side, you mentioned you went to Saudi last week, right? So how does both the landscape compare Saudi versus UAE? Saudi is quite into a sudden boom in construction. So, are they really up to the mark in terms of construction and software technology? Is it similar to UAE? Have they caught up or is it behind? How is it right now?

Ibrahim: See, in the UAE, we can say that the adoption of technology has reached a very high level of maturity because companies like us and others worldwide have been focused on that region for so many years. The same thing is happening now in Saudi Arabia. And we can see that Saudi Arabia has a lot of educated people now. The local guys. You cannot imagine. You cannot imagine their skills, knowledge, and talent. Plus, that level of project. They are also from every place in the world.

Bilna: The most talented people are being brought.

Ibrahim: Exactly. So, I met three or four guys who have worked previously in Dubai on a big project. Some people work from Canada or the USA and they are assigned to big projects. Because I think some of the projects there had a scale that no one had seen before.

Bilna: Yes. It’s a huge project.

Ibrahim: I was on one of the projects there. The project is named Deraia. OK, it’s sixty-three billion dollars.

Bilna: Wow. The size is huge in terms of a project.

Ibrahim: Yeah. Actually, you need around twenty five minutes to access that project from gate eight to gate four.

Bilna: It’s so huge it’s like one whole village or one whole area.

Ibrahim:  Exactly. So, you can consider it as a city, which is not easy to control. But the size of the product is very huge.

Bilna: Are they adopting this software and technology in these projects?

Ibrahim: Yes, they are starting to accept. Actually, I got an invitation for that project from one contract manager. And he called me and told me, “Please, I want to show the people what we did in our previous project in Dubai”. So, people like it , they adapt, because, again, they are under pressure and you offer a solution. OK, if you feel thirsty or hungry and one guy gives you a very hot, nice meal, no one would reject something like that. Maybe it’s not enough for him, or he needs something extra. But technology as a concept is now accepted in all fields by most people. Dubai here they have a high level of maturity. You know, if you speak to anyone, they understand, they know, they try, and they have evaluated many things before. So that level, which I’m sure Saudi Arabia will reach very soon, And Bahrain, Kuwait, and the GCC we have so many potential countries, and most of the countries are now seeing Dubai, seeing what happened in Saudi Arabia, and trying to duplicate it. Yes, they understand that model.

Bilna: Everyone is growing along.

The Amazing Transformation of Dubai

Ibrahim: Yes, yes. I was in one company with a project in the Far East. OK, you cannot imagine how beautiful and complicated it is, which makes it look like even though there are some locations now out of UAE named Dubai and Dubai City, they make something look like Dubai.

Bilna: Yeah, because everyone has that kind of fascination towards Dubai.

Ibrahim: Yes, And I’m really a witness to that. I’m here before the metro. I’m here before Burj Khalifa.

Bilna: So, you have seen the Dubai landscape transform. You were here before the recession time, also the major recession.

Ibrahim: I attend the recession here. It was very hard days. But I think that bad days make people stronger.

Bilna: Yes, that’s when I think a lot of people learned a lot in terms of their businesses, in terms of their career, right?

Ibrahim:  Yes, it was tough days, especially for the construction industry. And the Business Bay, which is in Dubai. Yes, I go inside it. It looks like a ghost city. A lot of people left, and most of the projects were stopped. Cranes alone. There is no one there. OK, but after two years and you find everything almost working after three years, everything is finished. And now that we have a Business Bay, you can see the traffic. You can’t park your car. If you don’t have a place to put your car inside the building, you will not. There is no parking there. So it’s very busy. It happened like magic.

So, construction, I believe, can make magic. The switch for a project after completion is that you see something amazing, glowing, or like that. So that’s why I like that industry.

Bilna; And we already spoke about AI in construction, right? So, where do you see the construction industry growing and going next with terms of AI other than Open Space? Is there any other software? Or, you know, how is that AI happening?

Ibrahim: Yes, we need to understand that AI is based on machine learning. The computer can learn. If you show the computer or the system so many types of material, it can know and identify it. So, it will be easy for the system to know; it is faster than the people. It can grab so much data, so it will be easy.

Bilna: So, Ibrahim, when it comes to AI, we already discussed Open Space AI. But other than that, how do you see a construction industry growing in terms of AI? Because every industry is now impacted by AI, right? So, do you see any software is coming or, you know, what is your overview on AI and construction?

Ibrahim: Yeah, actually, soon we will release a software which is related to both AI and ChatGPT at the same time.

Bilna: Wow. ChatGPT is the hero.

Ibrahim: Yes, because… If you have a document and you give it to ChatGPT, which can read itself, ChatGPT will answer your question. So, if you have something you want to ask, you’ll have a digital friend. So, if you have a document, a contract, or anything like that, imagine how many points you need to understand. And to understand it, you need to read the whole contract, which is 100 pages.

Bilna: Yes, yes, I know it very well.

Ibrahim: Imagine if you give it to one guy who has experience and he’s smart enough to read it in a few minutes, and he can answer all your questions.

Bilna: Oh, okay. What is the condition regarding this? What is the condition regarding that?

Ibrahim: What is the change before that one and that one? If you have two versions of the contract, this is one. Another thing, understanding of the drawing. And again, AI is not still enough now. What I think is, it’s still developing, still a baby. Okay, it will grow day after day, and it will learn more for every industry. And the output will be..

Bilna: …better and better everyday

Ibrahim: So, again, it’s a tool that is safe. We can use it as a tool. Some people are afraid it will replace humans. No, it’s a tool.

Never stop using any tool you will find, because it will make you stronger. Otherwise, at that time, if you are not using it, it will be your weakness. So, if you have knowledge of something, this is your strength. If you don’t know it, it will become a big weakness.

So, we have to take care of it. For AI and construction, it will go everywhere. I told you that