Dayu Dara Permata turned her early frustration with the real estate experience into the largest property platform in Southeast Asia. Her startup, Pinhome, has attracted funding from top-tier investors like Intudo Ventures, Insignia Ventures Partners, Ribbit Capital, and Iterative Venture.

In this episode, you will learn:

• Timing your leap into entrepreneurship
• Launching a startup in a crisis
• The future of the property business
• Diversifying your capital stack with debt and equity

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About Dayu Dara Permata:

Dayu Dara Permata is the fo-Founder & Head of GO-LIFE, Indonesia’s largest on-demand lifestyle app, with more than 9 Mn users operating in over 80 cities. Dayu has cofounded new businesses in GO-JEK, from ideation, validation, and pilot, to scaling up and expansion.

Connect with Dayu Dara Permata:

• Crunchbase
• LinkedIn
• Instagram

Read the Full Transcription of the Interview:

Alejandro Cremades: Hello everyone and welcome to the deal maker show. So today I’m very excited with the guest that we have joining us joining us from Jakarta. So I think that we’re going to be. You know, learning quite a bit you know from finding your passion from you know, being too scared of starting and maybe like doing the int entrepreneurship route before the entrepreneurship route so you name it so without further ado. Let’s welcome our guest today Dayu Dara Permata welcome to the show.

Dayu Dara Permata: My pleasure. It’s my na hand Thanks for having me.

Alejandro Cremades: So originally born and raised in Jakarta you know in a family of 3 siblings so tell salero fan give us a little of how walk through memory lane. How was life growing up.

Dayu Dara Permata: Ah, well thank you? So yes, born and raised here in Indonesia ah the eldest of 3 siblings family values at heart um equality responsibility intellectual curiosity. My parents are. Pretty much egalitarian parents who believes in true equality. So I remember growing up I was very boyish I have 2 younger brothers and we were very boyish. We share some toys even some apparel some clothings and what’s interesting. Also what I remember from growing up is. I always wanted my own space. So my own bed my own toilet my own room and when I was old enough to live on my own I started living you know in a co- livingving space Nine Metre square very common. You know if you’re a young um indonesians what you do is I mean that you graduate from high school. And maybe your campus is a bit far away you would live in this like colleague being set up with your roommates and so I had that? Um, so yeah, and then when I graduated from college and started working having my own money. My. The first thing that I did was to buy my own property please.

Alejandro Cremades: And what what we’re saying buying your own property like.

Dayu Dara Permata: Painful extremely painful by the way it wasn’t like luxury property was you know some $10,000 land plot somewhere outside town. Um second theater city and I thought of building something. Maybe you know fart. Down in the in the future and that’s still a landlock though today that was extremely painful because you know I think similar to emerging market situation anywhere around the property transactions probably one of the most traditional transaction there is everything is very ah. But basically pain and paper agents are very traditional. They’re not the most professional ah and actually it’s actually very very informal. So. There’s no license requirement to be an agent so agent. Most agents. Don’t have their property knowledge. They’re not exactly like ah professional agents like in the states right. Very different than what it is the experience of buying properties in more developed market like ah United States or in Europe. Ah yeah, so um, I had to probably visited twenty thirty properties to look. Or to to get one that I really like that that fit my criteria. It’s it’s really really common here. So.

Alejandro Cremades: And obviously see if they say I you know they’re like doorman they take time to incubate and I will talk about you know what? you’re up to you know, just a little bit but 1 thing that really you know perhaps provided some color or Trump perspective was becoming an exchange student in the us I mean obviously different culture different. Everything you know the american dream. You know the go getter you know in terms of entrepreneurship. So what? What would you say that that experience gave you um in terms of you know forming you and forming your view about the world.

Dayu Dara Permata: Well, that was really life-changing for me imagine a sixteen year old and all my life. My understanding of values norms and what you know the definition of dream. It’s all based on my indonesian experience so when I was exposed to the um living in in the states. It was. It was very eyeopening ah culturally was very different indonesian is very conservative indoneonesian parents are also very conservative. We thought to. Be like good employee a you know good kid good employee growing up just ah, be loyal to one company and you know have a stable life and then in in the states you even early age you’re taught to you’re told and taught to. Explore to be adventureous to have that the american dream to be whatever you want to be the world is an open kind of you know it is an openended like opportunities. It’s endless and ah, very. Very sometimes very aggressive, very optimistic view of a lot of different things. So I learn about that and I also learn to speak up and all these basic things. You know how to communicate with parents how you always have to have an opinion about something.

Dayu Dara Permata: I I didn’t have that before before my exchange student experience I was just you know I was I like being told I like being yeah told what to do and just um, run like a very simple stable risk for your life. But then I learn complete opposite in the states and I really like that I really enjoy that and I think the the merging of these 2 different cultures I think shape me to be who I am today.

Alejandro Cremades: I’m talking about the merging or of 2 things so you studied a mix of business and engineering you know I think like you know as they say the the most incredible entrepreneurs are the ones that are able to really jump from the technical side. To the business side and when you’re able to blend both you become very dangerous in a positive Way. So What have you? what has been your experience about blending both of these things.

Dayu Dara Permata: Right? I growing up I always like technology technical problem solving engineering. So I learned to love the technology first before thinking about the problem but then I was exposed to business. Um, although it it was a minor that I took you know. 24 credits but it was it gave me different perspective. It. It taught me about thinking about opportunities First the pinpoints first problems first and then move backward to the technology that can solve that pain point so complete opposite of you know like is a complete completely different school of thought completely different. Process. But I think that’s the right process is’s not about like thinking about okay this is that cool technology. How can we use it? How can we implement it. But it’s really starting from the problem and move backwards from that problem and think about what technology would enable solution for this problem? Um, yeah I I did. Think that? ah and it’s because of the ah business background business exposure I did 4 internship during my college here and that really helped um, really align my understanding of you know what opportunities could mean how do we build business. How do we solve. Business problems really helped me to be more prepared as I entered the workforce. Yeah, that was quite interesting.

Alejandro Cremades: So then you go into as as we’re talking about problems you go into telco but then after telcos for a few years you go to Mckinsey where you were for 4 years now. Some of the best entrepreneurs that I find too is people that have done consulting and I find that. Consulting. You know, gives you access to understanding how you grab a big problem how you break it into small little problems and then how you start tackling one after the other. So what’s that your experience to.

Dayu Dara Permata: Absolutely um, and ah, of course those are all just framework unless you really execute it right? like um, hit the ground and stress test those frameworks but really I think consulting equipment with the ability. Thing in a way that’s structured organized first day in consultancy I was at Mckinsey for about 4 years as senior business consultant. My first day at the very first framework that we were taught was the Sba which is um it is about kind of. Ah, defining problem structuring the solution prioritizing solution creating action plans and if I I can tell you my 4 years is all about that for 30 different clients is but defining the problem you wanted to solve why that and also understanding why that matters and then basically structuring the solution. Ah, because problem you can break it down to smaller pieces and when it is broken down to smaller pieces. It becomes kind of more manageable right instead of like looking at it as a big hairy problem that is completely untangled. You know if you tangle it and it it is becoming now like maybe a set of like. Ten ten smaller problems and if you tackle that one by 1 ah, if you do that exhaustively then you solve the big problem umructuring solutions were running it and then prioritizing solution and that’s what a lot of people missed is you know you have these 10 ah so then problems and solutions. But then you do it all at once you don’t.

Dayu Dara Permata: Understand the concept of burital which is focusing on the 20 percenting that drives 80% of the output or impact so learn about that. Um, you know I would say 10 different sectors 35 different clients 4 years um and you know, spending every week probably easily 9200 hours a week but that really equipped me to ja the technology which is extremely fast based lot of you know of course also a very multidi dimensionsional that multidimensional, especially the startup I was ah. Ah, working in when I joined 8015 was goja and it had 40 different services 40 different services I kid you not it was like 40 different I would say b to c consumerfacing products and it was also I would say cross- sectorctoral. We had products in. Ah, transportation mobility. We had also products in foot delivery of even grocery delivery retail ah logistic home services and so really equipment to to be ah you know I think um. I would say in entrepreneurs in in technology sector. Yes.

Alejandro Cremades: Yeah to to be ready for the venture world then and that’s what I wanted to ask you because you know before you even go I mean Gojik. You know one of the largest adventures in Indonesia I mean incredible ah ride for you being one of the early employees there. 1 of the. A management team members. But what? what? one of the things that this gave you access was to taste entrepreneurship without having to take the risk because I understand that you’re a risk covers person. So how how do you? I mean I guess there’s probably. A lot of people that are listening that are maybe like right now you know in their 9 to 5 you know job thinking about how to make it happen how to venture into the entrepreneurial world. So how was that entrepreneurship experience. You know and how do you think that allowed you to be at a point where. You realized? Okay I think I I got this I think it’s my time to start my own thing.

Dayu Dara Permata: Right? Um, yeah I think I really love this question because ah, all the times I I I got question. You know how are you so resttaking and my immediate answer typically is I am not at all are risktaking. You know I was. All my life I was risk a risk averse individual. But the way I cope with so much risk in entrepreneurship was ah through um, of course like risk mitigation understanding what it a risk and just mitigate them. Um, and the the best. Academy for me to learn about identifying race mitiating those risks in context of vencial building was was goje was being part of this when I joined 2015 so ah, a bit of a ah context how I transition into technology sector was because. I was I was in still consultancy I I love being in consultancy. Um, but then I get pulled into joy in gojek which then was a series a series, a technology startup ah Nadim Makari ah was the ex ceo founder of Gojek. Ah, also was ah alam of mikinancy and so we got I got to know him from alumni network and he pulled me to join gojik right after its series. A I was early fifteen management team. Um, and then my my five years there so I spent 10 years in gojik

Dayu Dara Permata: My my five years day was were basically spent on doing 2 things. 1 is helping gojik to to expand ah from limited city operations to 100 plus city operations building a 500 people team in the process and just making the services available nationwide. Ah, so that was about 2 years that I spent there but the 3 years was actually about venture building within a venture so building this um portfolio called lifestyle home service and commerce product group within which we have product like crosstra delivery. We have home services. We have ah ctocylogistics service. Um, so it it was ah a unicorn within a decacorn and um when I started I was the only the member for that product group. I had to hire my own team I had to fight for my own budget and to together with my c cofounder in weedden together had to create our ah vision cascading it down from kind of kind of goja big vision and mission. But then we we have to have our vertical vision and mission and that’s. Essentially entrepreneurship right? and entrepreneurship is about identifying opportunities. Um, and then being able to seize and capture that opportunity. Ah, and when we in in context of venture building is what building that vision and mission cas getting it to ah product ah definition product milestones.

Dayu Dara Permata: Um, and then you have the 5 piece of venture building and I learned that at gojack 15 times because we launched 15 different product lines from grownup right from scratch and that 5 piece are basically one. The first piece is about purpose. You need to understand the purpose. What’s. Why why do you Why do you care about this? Ah why? why? Why does it matter? Ah, and so understanding the purpose then you start thinking about the people who can have that aligned vision and mission with you ah trying to achieve that purpose and it’s about hiring. Ah, attracting recruiting retaining developing the right talents that can help you build the third p which is product and the product is all about building this seamless ah seamless product and because of we refer to digital product and that that digital product where you have seamless user journey from when customer. Um. First interface with ah with with your app or with your website or whatever that might be and then all the way until they exist and then hopefully they repeat and come back to you and then the the fourth and the fifth p is about process and and and and performance so process is about. You know you have product. But then as a business you cannot just completely rely on your product. It’ll be internal processes that has to be as efficient as and as streamlined and over time Hopefully it can be automated and digitized. So it’s not enough that you have amazing productfacing consumer but inside your.

Dayu Dara Permata: Inside your organization. Everything is very messy is bureaucratic if process process don’t exist and sometimes it’s like redundant so you don’t you don’t want that so you you need to have good front-facing and as well as also the backoff face internally- facing process and then lastly performance is boetting. We all know this you know Keeppi okkir Whatno right? like setting the right organizational goal and then cascadde it down to a functional unit individual and eventually just being able to track those and reward top performers and of course um, you know I think develop. Ah, under under performance. Make sure that they they can help you achieve objective.

Alejandro Cremades: So then let’s talk about pin homeme at what point that’s the idea of pin home while you’re working at Goji at at what point pinhome comes to mind. Obviously you met your your cofounder there. Ah but at what point do you guys realize hey I think. I think we got to do something about this one. So.

Dayu Dara Permata: Right? Um, yeah so I have spent about perhaps four four and a half years I go check when myself and the the cio for the same product group I was responsible for so we had been working together for about 3 years then inside project and so we discuss about. you know when do we know we hit the ceiling and what should we do about it when we do hit the ceiling in this organization because um you know I think for me um I had always wanted to be a full-fledged entrepreneur. Um, it was an an if it was a when for me right. And when for me, that’s ah 2 lens I have I approach it 2 lens when when in terms of timing and also in terms of kind of milestones because timing is about like okay is this ah this year or next year but milestone is about. Ah, what are the prirequi said before we can comfortably step out. Ah because we don’t want to ah leave a sinking ship. We want to make sure that the team is in ah in a good shape so when we leave we can leave a legacy business right? and hopefully the business could be multi genderrational. Ah, of course it’s not easy. So. Ah, at the end of the thousand and ninety we saw that opportunity. Basically we saw that momentum we felt that we hit that ceiling where ah guccik was already very big and yes, we’re still creating delta but that delta wasn’t transformational anymore because we had amazing successors that with or without us still continue to create impact and value.

Dayu Dara Permata: And so we felt that okay our delta was not as transformational as a leader. Um and gojik was also transitioning from founder led startup to be a Ceo led startup when an.

Dayu Dara Permata: Just making sure I put it on a separate hold a second right? just making sure it’s on separate window in case all right? Um Let’s let’s go back so we were talking about how I transition out good. Um yes, ah at. Love this question so when did I know that I had to transition out. Um my cofounder and I my Ceo cofounder and I then was the Ceo for the same product group I was responsible for at go check. Um, we had been working together for about 3 years in psychojick when we decided to step out and six months prior to us stepping off he was us having conversation of whether you know it’s a good time to start planning. Um and building our own venture. Um, and we ah we agreed on ah on criteria when we know it’s a perfect time for us to to start and first is that we know we hit that ceiling in this organization. It’s you know when you when you couldn’t grow more um as professional. Or couldn’t pursue your aspirations within the organization. So that’s one second criteria is that when we have already line of successors that can be successful. Um, leading the business without without our presence. Um, and and so we saw that.

Dayu Dara Permata: Those 2 criterias at the end of 2019 um, we both had always wanted to be a full-flledged entrepreneur. It was an if for us it was a when and and the when we saw that was the perfect I mean for ah for us to transition out. Ah gojik was transitioning also from founder led business to. To to see all that business where nadim the the Ceo and founders step out ah because he was appointed to be minister in the ah presidential Jacoby cabinet that was in end of 2019. We had great successor and ah we we saw ourself as. Kind of the ah the leaders that create delta but was not as transformational anymore because anyway the team was even far more capable than we ever were and so we yes we step out into this 2019 and um to be home in 2020 launch april exactly in January at the gate of covid and that was quite interesting. Kind of ah you know, incepting and building business all exclusively in pandemic right? from alphabetadelta on Miron and now tech winter and what next inflation. Um, yeah, it’s it’s been a roller coaster journey.

Alejandro Cremades: So for the people that are listening to really get it. Why ended up being the business model of pin home. How do you guys make money.

Dayu Dara Permata: Right? Um, so we are a next generation transaction platform for property to put it simply We are an an ecommerce for property transaction think of an e-commerce. It is a business where you um.

Dayu Dara Permata: Enable discovery of a commodity all the way to delivering the onusship for that commodity. We see e-commerce in fast moving consumer goods segment. We believe that in the near future. Um, years from now people will be comfortable, comfortable transacting properties. Ah, through digital platform. So from discovery all the way to delivery of ownership of property on the same platform. Sure there will be some interactions that happen offline so home viewing home touring and or should should still happen offline. And there’s like title signing Mand bylaw you have to do wet sign with public notary thoses can still can still happen offline but everything else should just take place online and the the goal is for us to be the platform that allows for that online to offline back to online and end it offline transition. Seamless now how do we make money we have we monetize through 2 ways one is transaction-based revenue that is making money through commission of successful brokerage transaction mortgage transaction and home service transaction. And then we also have the financing best revenue where we generate revenue from rather state supply chain financing just like any financing platforms. We generated revenue from net interest rate between interest rate we give to borrowers versus the cost of capital. Ah yes, we are at.

Dayu Dara Permata: Insection of propte and fintech. We’re not 100% propte company. We are 50% propte 50% finback and that makes our business robust.

Alejandro Cremades: And then let me ask you this in terms of capital. How much capital have you guys raised today.

Dayu Dara Permata: Right? Um, so we have raised um a total of I would say north of 75,000,000 on Equity Capital since Inception. We also have about $35,000,000 debt Facility. So ah combined is 100 And $10000000 capital that we’ve raised to date.

Alejandro Cremades: And and how does that work like having equity on one end and debt on the other why? Why do you need those 2

Alejandro Cremades: Yeah, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. So why do you? Why do you need? you know those say the equity and then also the dip side like why? Why do you need those to us part of of the pin homeme operation.

Dayu Dara Permata: Sorry short.

Dayu Dara Permata: Fundracing equity for startup or technology venture. That’s very common. Yes, ah, it’s day one pre- revenue preproduct. We raise our equity capital and now we’ve gone through ah 3 stage of equity fund racing. Ah, but in the it throughout that process throughout the databases development. We’ve also uncovered opportunities basically to raise non- dilutive capital in a form of debt and we we highly recommend highly suggest entrepreneurs that. Have the ability to rest it to actually leverage on this ah capability. It is ah it is a capability meaning that not all businesses can raise that you need to prove that you have r oi classic. You know, positive in an economy type of revenue lines or business. You to be able to raise debt financing and for us definitely the fact that we have relativeset supply chain financing where we could lend basically money to process stakeholders like property agents property agencies ah property. Other property service providers property developers um and looking at our loan book where you know we have proven that we have when we lend money we have very healthy, not non-performing loan so less than zero point Five Zero point four percent non-performing loan.

Dayu Dara Permata: This basically enables ah enables us basically to raise a capital that’s non dilutive in a form of debt so that we could scale the business further um and you know I was new to this last year we we raised our we we started the process last year and and earlier this year and we we we get offers that facility. Um, and I think it’s extremely liberating to have deersified source of capitals if youre if you are entrepreneurs especially in a difficult ah time like this for fundraising we we know we know this is the period we call that tech winter where. Valuation of tech companies get compressed private or public the same especially if you are a ah late stage growth stage companies and then raising capital through equity can be very expensive, very dilutive. So having that access to debt financing is very powerful and.

Alejandro Cremades: And obviously in this case, you raised the money from a lot of us investors. So how was that you know, um how how were you able to make that you know possible being so far away from the Us.

Dayu Dara Permata: It was actually for us for us. Also it was it was very ah shocking. Um, it was ah shocking that you know we didn’t meet with at series. A. We didn’t meet any of the investors that. Invested it been home at series a and series b we also did that fully virtually so we’ve raisedd seventy plus million dollars of equity capital exclusively through ah you know virtual pitches right? Um I mean if you told me this. In 2019 that we could raise capital virtually I would call you crazy like that’s not possible, right? that that’s impossible I can’t even imagine the idea. But I guess pandemic um, ah you know, enforce that and you know.

Dayu Dara Permata: Made that happen. Um and talking about fundraising it is you know I love your I love your book aandro ah the the art of ah Sara fundraising and I think fundraising is and its art of more than and modern science right.

Alejandro Cremades: Um, thank you.

Dayu Dara Permata: Because for equity investors when they look at the business for business like being home For example, we get our. We got our first check pre-revonu pre product. It was even product to showcase. It was fully about that trust towards the founder trust towards the opportunities. Ah and and convictions over the regions and the sector. Um, and and that’s all like very emotional right? Emotionally driven vision driven instead of like you know, um, commercially driven. Um or okay I see the metrics now I know you’re performing I’m going to inject capital. It wasn’t like that in the early days and even in a. Sequence rounds of financing. It was also about like what narratives are we building and so how did we manage kind of to raise capital you know, almost exclusively all virtually number one is ah of course we need to know. The industry the sector the region in and out. Um, we need to not just like through ideation come up with ideas but validate that idea stress test ah proof that there’s ah, there’s a you know monetization opportunity. Um, and profitability opportunity for for it to be to be profitable and we’ve proven that day one. We’ve proven that day one we could ah start a business that was unit economic positive and it’s just it. It takes some volume but it was completely attainable volume for us to be.

Dayu Dara Permata: Profitable and we have a timement to be profitable so day one we we had built strong robust and sound narrative about how we could build a monettizable and profitable business and the second thing is then knowing the archetype or criteria of the Vc that we would love to work with and who would ah. Appreciate our business so you could try to build to boil the ocean basically like pitch to a hundred different v untargeted and and probably you would run out of energy money and resources by the time you get to your first investment. But. We were very targeted so we knew exactly the architect we wanted to work with 1 is strong domain in propte and fintech. These are the people that will appreciate what we’re building in propte and fintech sector is that we also want to see a good balance between kind of local vss regional visas and global vsas because global vis without presence in. Um, in saudis asia they’ll be very worried to see that they’re the only one in the cape table and just really no local coverage from like local original Vc um, so when we first raised our check we raised it from regional guys and local guys and then when we go to the global guys. It’s series a or series b we say that hey. We have strong supporters locally regionally these are the guys who understand the region in and out the sector in and out and they trusted us and so that really helps to build confidenceence and condition from the global guys and at the end of that we have good balance between local regional and global expertise.

Dayu Dara Permata: Um, and then also you have to filter for those guys who are very strongly convicted about the opportunity about the region make sure that they’re committed in ah to invest in the region and they’re not here to kind of spread and pray um and lastly lifecycle Investor. It’ll be great to have investor that can participate not just in one realm. But. Multiple rams that sends a very strong signal for future investors. These guys say this must be a good business. This guy double down or doing super prorata Super prorata means like exercising that prorata writes even higher than prorata where there’s opportunity. Future investor would say like this must be a really good business. This guy stick throughout stages of fundraising. So Yes, and and so that’s that’s understanding the archetype of investor you want to work work with and the ones that can appreciate your business and it’s It’s equally important for you to also filter them. Not just like them filtering you I think um. And and lastly is what? um you know pitch succingtly about the opportunities How you’re going to capture it through Metrics. Ah you need to understand the the top metrics that matter and ensure you have to ask the the visis as well like in your interactions with them. What metrics. Do you look at how how can we qualify. Um, and don’t don’t be afraid to ask those questions and immediately they some of them will say like something that’s a bit more vague. Some can be very up ah straightforward and say like okay we want to see a ah you know, ah annual as revenue more than 5000000. So then you know okay, we’re too early or actually we’re you know, probably.

Dayu Dara Permata: Ah, a bit a bit too late for them. So ah, so so no, no the metrics that matter.

Alejandro Cremades: So And that’s fantastic. There. Thank you so much for sharing that mean I’m sure that a lot of people that are listening that are about to venture out into the crazy thing of fundraising. You know they’re really going to you know, appreciate and and and really got some really good insights. There. So. I Guess you know to get a better understanding of the scope and size of pinhome I mean anything that you feel comfortable sharing in terms of maybe number of employees or anything else.

Dayu Dara Permata: And absolutely so we have about 425 employees. Ah we operate in 80 cities in Indonesia we ah our team are spread across perhaps ten fifteen cities um we are in the ballpark revenue of. Ah I would say north of $35,000,000 and revenue um and in in Southeast asia we’re definitely the largest ah property platform by any definition and in terms of ah. Well I think so span coverage um in it’s common that you measured by a number of listings on the supply side number of property seekers on the dmon side so we have about 700,000 listings on our platform and we serve every month. Over five million unique property seekers looking for properties.

Alejandro Cremades: Got it now Imagine if you were to go to sleep tonight Era and you wake up in a world where the vision of Pin home is fully realized what does that world look like.

Dayu Dara Permata: Right? It might be crazy. But if we’re successful maybe in five maybe 10 years from now. Um, it’s the future where someone who’s looking for property. The first thing they do is they open pin home. And they would inquire about property weeks time they negotiate on that property through our platform ready to make payment. They execute on those set staggered payments. You know, booking fee deposit whatnot. Ah, Don payment fee and even full payment all transact through pin home. Um, and that is the true definition of building ecommerce for property transactions where discovery all the way to delivery of ownership of property as a commodity is done all digitally. And I hope that we’re not too far from that future.

Alejandro Cremades: That future looks beautiful Dara. So so let me ask you this if I was to put you into a time machine and bring you back in time perhaps to that moment where you were. Ah, gojik you were thinking about maybe like doing something and you know maybe you didn’t have like infinite clarity. But imagine you were able to sit down that younger there and give that younger yeah Dara one piece of business advice before launching a business. But will that be and why given what you know now.

Dayu Dara Permata: Be brave and I have this ah I would say ah mental model called brave and I I keep telling myself now I wish I could tell my my younger self. Maybe ten fifteen years ago ah know that the first is be believe in yourself whether you believe you can or you cannot You’re always right? so why why not believe that you can um ah r is about rational um ah so r is about ah rational distance so attending rational distance before you’re doing something making sure you’re rational, not emotional and you can be passionate about something but but make sure when you make decision just not purely fired by passion. There’s some analytical ah approach also to your decision. Um, a is about you know, accepting that you can make a mistake and and and fee is fueling that failure or mistake as cost of learning investment instead of the end of things the and the end of um, you know. Your business or your effort and e is about expanding possibility believe that you can do so you know you can be successful in live and in career in your entrepreneurship at the same time if your family.

Dayu Dara Permata: If you can you know balance your priorities doing the right thing at the right time.

Alejandro Cremades: I’m amazing. Well there are that’s very powerful. So for the people that are listening that would like to reach out and say hi. What is the best way for them to to do so.

Dayu Dara Permata: I’m active on Linkedin you you can drop me a message um da you Dayu Dara Permata: primata you can also go to my Instagram da you Dayu Dara Permata: how am I spell how my name is spelled and then an email ah da you do Dayu Dara Permata: at pin home dot I t.

Alejandro Cremades: Amazing! Well there I thank you so much for being on the deal maker show today. It has been an honor to have you with us.

Dayu Dara Permata: It’s an it’s an honor and pleasure to be here. Aleanddo Thanks so much for thinking about me and pulling me here. Thank you.

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