EVE Online has been captivating players with its vast player-driven universe for over two decades. While the space-based MMO has seen countless epic stories unfold, the boots-on-the-ground experience has been largely unexplored, apart from the now-defunct DUST 514 on the PlayStation 3. Enter EVE Vanguard, CCP Games’ ambitious new project that aims to bring the visceral, planetside warfare of New Eden to life like never before, and on May 23-27, 2024, we are entering EVE Vanguard, First Strike.

In an interview with CGMagazine, EVE Vanguard Art Director Neil Kaminski shared his vision for this groundbreaking addition to the EVE universe. Built on the cutting-edge Unreal Engine 5, EVE Vanguard promises to deliver a visually stunning and immersive experience with a focus on realism and cinematic flair. Players will find themselves navigating the wreckage of massive ships, engaging in intense firefights, and experiencing the weight of every shot fired.

While EVE has had companion games in the past—I am looking at you, Dust 514—what sets EVE Vanguard apart is its deep integration with EVE Online from day one. As a “companion experience,” EVE Vanguard will allow players to impact the overarching narrative of New Eden directly. This seamless connection between the two games is a testament to CCP’s commitment to creating a truly living, breathing universe where every action has consequences.

With EVE Vanguard, CCP Games is boldly venturing into uncharted territory, offering players an entirely new perspective on the conflicts that shape the EVE universe. As the game continues to evolve through close collaboration with the EVE community, Vanguard is poised to redefine what it means to be a part of New Eden, especially as we head into EVE Vanguard, First Strike.

How long have you been with CCP?

Neil Kaminsky: I’ve been with CCP now for a little over six years. 

Between EVE Online and CCP, there’s this longevity. We’re at over 20 years of the game. Half the staff has been there since the beginning or close to it. What do you think is keeping the fans and staff around?

Neil Kaminsky: I’ll be honest, I think it’s the mutual influence between us—the developers and the fans—that’s truly unique. The developers are here because they witness the reactions at events like this; the fans are here because the developers are present. This symbiosis is something you don’t often see in other titles. Having worked at EA and various other big studios, I’ve never encountered this kind of dynamic where the fans and developers create the game together in such a partnership. Attending these events [EVE Fan Fest] offers a fresh perspective and helps you realize just how much the game means to people.

What is EVE Vanguard going to bring to over 20 years of history?

Neil Kaminsky: There’s a significant human component to consider—not to suggest that the capsuleers aren’t human. You’re not just a disembodied ship; you are a capsule inside that ship. This perspective offers a new way for people to experience the game. Everyone is used to the monolithic scale they see on screen—their ship looming large—but because everything in the game [EVE Online] is depicted on such a grand scale, it can be hard for players to truly grasp the enormity. EVE Vanguard changes that by allowing players to see the ships up close and personal, giving them a real sense of just how enormous these vessels are.

If you look at some of the citadels, they’re tens of kilometres long. They are a city or floating city, and your head can’t adjust to that sort of scale. If one were to crash on a planet’s surface, it could be almost a world-ending event. We’ve conducted extensive research into how a citadel would be constructed, drawing parallels with real-world structures like the International Space Station (ISS). The ISS has built-in components, which are then ferried into space and assembled there. A citadel would be constructed similarly but on a much larger scale. It consists of modular sections, which means it can fracture, and these modules could potentially deploy rockets.

Can you give us a quick layman’s overview of what EVE Vanguard is all about? What do you do when you land? What do you fight, and what happens?

Neil Kaminsky: The first iteration, which you’ve obviously seen now, is the Vanguard coming in realistically to take missions, but the real resonant data for them is to just cause chaos. That’s what the Deathless wants to do. He just wants to create chaos. We take missions from all kinds of people. The Guristas, the Angel Cartel, whoever, but realistically, that’s not what they’re focused on. They’re just in there to wreak havoc. They’re an agency to do that, so we’ll have a lot of different types of missions. 

Right now, we’re just using it more as a framework to test the game, build it and see what resonates. There will be extraction elements in the game, but it’s not an extraction shooter. We’re going to go way beyond that. Who you start with, even as a Vanguard, is just the beginning of that journey. The player, you, the environment, worlds, missions, everything will evolve over time. We’re not trying to lock you into one thing because that’s a trap, right? What if you find out that it doesn’t resonate with the fans or there are technical problems with it? I think there’s that element of not getting locked into a trajectory.

EVE Vanguard is described as not being a standalone title but as a part of EVE Online. Does it welcome players who don’t play EVE Online, or will it be an empty experience for them?

Neil Kaminsky: We’re planning to deepen our engagement with the lore, leveraging over 20 years of history. This approach is similar to how the game Wipeout effectively integrated manufacturers into its world, making them feel tangibly present. We aim to achieve this with all the manufacturers and empires within our game. For new players, this will create an impression that the game has been around for a long time, enhancing its depth and continuity. For veteran EVE players, it will be a delightful nod to familiar elements. By doing this, we hope to evoke nostalgia in long-time players while providing a rich historical context to newcomers, making them feel instantly connected to the game’s universe from day one.

What are you expecting to see from the fans with EVE Vanguard?

Neil Kaminsky: I think there’s going to be a lot of curiosity. A big question will be, “What does this mean for me? If I’m an EVE player, why should I care about Vanguard, and from Vanguard’s side, do I need to play EVE?” There’s likely to be significant interest in these questions.

I’ll discuss more about our plans for engagement from day one and the lessons we’ve learned from Dust 514. Building this is a marathon, not a sprint, so we’ll take our time to develop it properly.

We are focused on creating not just any connections but meaningful ones. These can range from small to significant interactions. We don’t necessarily need to link economies or require players to spend ISK (EVE‘s in-game currency). Instead, what might be trivial for one player could be significant for another, potentially buying an entire arsenal without disrupting the game’s economy. Our goal is to establish meaningful connections that enable players to coexist and interact in this world together.

You mentioned Dust and how that game was the original iteration of a shooter in the universe. How much of that game’s look did you try to incorporate into this game, or did you keep it a blank slate?

Neil Kaminsky: There’s definitely an element of starting from scratch. We’re utilizing new technology, which allows us to approach things differently. However, in New Eden, time only moves forward. There’s no way to rewind and revisit past events. Just as with Dust and EVE: Valkyrie, among several other projects, these events occurred. What we need to do is acknowledge that they happened. There’s no point in trying to ignore them or attempt any sort of reimagining or redux.

Dust 514 happened, and with it came a range of manufacturers, clans, and empires that were part of the game. We acknowledge everything that was in Dust, and we plan to incorporate elements that were popular with the fans into this new context. While this approach may tickle nostalgia, the visual style of the game will remain true to EVE, and its signature look is quite raw and gritty. It’s not a bright, vibrant universe. It’s dark in tone, but it doesn’t necessarily mean to be dark in nature. 

We are planning to take you to a variety of planets that extend beyond the typical barren rock worlds. In doing so, we’re stripping away many of the usual visual spectacles like lens flares and chromatic aberrations, as well as the crushed values on the screen that are often used to create a more cinematic experience. Instead, we’re aiming for a visual approach that broadens the exposure values to something that more closely resembles what your eye naturally perceives in these environments. We’ve decided to remove the chromatic aberration and lens flares, stepping away from these common visual tropes to achieve a more realistic and immersive look.

We’ve ended up with something truly compelling. While we are still in the early stages of development, we are continuously experimenting and challenging our assumptions. Our goal is to achieve a look that minimizes the fourth wall, the reminder that you are playing a game, which is especially important for EVE players for whom the game feels very real. Unlike Dust, which leaned heavily into cinematic language, we are taking a different approach with Vanguard. However, if you are familiar with Dust or have played it, you’ll find Vanguard to have a familiar feel, hopefully making it a companion experience to what you’ve previously enjoyed.

Can you tell us a little bit about the PVE mechanics in EVE Vanguard? What is the environment doing to us?

Neil Kaminsky: New Eden is a harsh place, so one of the things we’re going to use is a lot of environmental hazards. There’s going to be fire, there’s going to be radiation, there’s going to be cryogenic fluids, there’s going to be all these things that the Vanguard has to figure out how to deal with. We’re probably going to have a lot of weather events and environmental hazards.

There will be EMP bursts that will affect you, and your equipment, and your machinery. The environment is going to be a huge part of how you play the game and the obstacles you have to overcome to get where you want to go.

In EVE Vanguard, we’re in an FPS, so what are our weapons going to look like? Is there going to be a variety of them?

Neil Kaminsky: We lean on all the races, the empires, the bloodlines, and the way they all have their machines and their weapons. All the manufacturers, their bloodlines, and the empires have certain things they prefer, like EMP weapons. Others prefer energy weapons or plasma weapons. The Minmatar prefer ballistic weapons and missiles. We’re going to use those as our anchor points for each of the manufacturers. What we’re also trying to do is lean into that element and try to make it real. 

A lot of what we’re doing is looking at modern science and saying, “This is interesting enough. We don’t need red lasers. If you think about your classic lasers. Red lasers don’t show up unless they hit something or interact with something. What we’re hoping to do is get into that element of science. So when you fire a laser, what you’ll see is the interaction of the laser in the environment. You’ll see it superheat the atmosphere, and you’ll see vapour trails.

If there’s a red streak on the screen, it’s probably coming from a railgun because they’re firing big pieces of metal at supersonic speeds that reach very high temperatures. We’re trying to make the manufacturing and the operation of the weapons feel grounded in reality.

How does it start? When you walk into a shooter like Fortnite, you just find things on the ground. I know there’s crafting, but EVE Online is like a life. So, is EVE Vanguard going to have you load up your character and your arsenal with you, or is it going to be different every match?

Neil Kaminsky:  The Vanguard starts out as clone warriors, so it’s not the clone that’s important here. It’s the Infomorph. It’s your digital consciousness that’s important because EVE is a story about consciousness and people. For us, we’re trying to lean into this idea of what it feels like to be a digital consciousness. That means we’re interested in trying to maintain a continuous experience throughout the game. That means the front end as well as the game, so that we build this interesting loop.

Will players be able to craft shields and weapons? On top of that, can they also craft things to assist them?

Neil Kaminsky: We don’t right now, but that’s definitely an avenue that we’re going to pursue. You see, at one point, they changed the ammunition, and the weapon changed to accommodate that. So ammunition changing the gun is just one of the things we’ll be looking at. Players will be able to craft different weapons, whether it’s inside and then calling them in or whether it’s upgrading and crafting weapons on the go. It’s early, so we’ll see what resonates.

I know in every other shooter, ammo is one of the biggest elements that makes it either realistic or not. You either have about 3000 rounds on you, or you have four, and you make it work. Since you are basing everything on reality, trying to figure out what would make sense for someone to carry. Most people don’t carry around 30 railgun bolts. How do you balance that?

Neil Kaminsky: We’re looking at the use of nanotechnology for those kinds of things, nanites that break things down into their molecular components and then reassemble them into other things. When you see people harvesting things from the environment, we can be pretty clever about how we do that kind of thing. We’re also looking at some other things, like the Caldari. We looked at the potential of being able to have two liquids that mix at the point of impact to solidify, so their bullets are almost made as a recipe on demand. 

One of the things I always say to the art teams and the design teams is you almost throw away your first idea and look for the idea behind it because it’s probably more exciting. Then you don’t necessarily go with that. Prototype it. Try it. Conceptualize it. See how it goes, but maybe it’s not the right idea. You know, prototyping is a really important part of our process because then iteration is where the magic happens.

With big fandoms, it’s scary when you change something even a little bit. Is it intimidating for your team to have to bring this brand-new thing to a not-so-new thing?

Neil Kaminsky: It would be if we were on our own. If we were a satellite studio or if we were contracted to make this game. I’ve been on that side of the fence before, and it’s scary. It’s scary. You can’t keep up with that sort of thing, but we’re directly connected to Bergur (Bergur Finnbogason), Snorri (Snorri Arnason), Nick Barnsley, and all these other people who are amazing repositories of knowledge.

If we have a question, we know who to ping, and they’re super smart because they’ll tell you if they don’t know, but they’ll go on the wiki and find out because the EVE wiki is amazing. A lot of times, you’ll go on there and you’ll find answers, and then you’ll have to go back to them and say, is this true? And they say, yeah, it’s true. So, 20-plus years and not all of it was even created by us. Most of it was created by the fans. 

We’re going to build this thing with the fans, right? So that’s why we’re releasing it so early because we want to get them involved in this thing. It’s not a box product where we’re just going to go away and give them this thing at the end. You know, that’s what EVE does best. It listens to what the fans want, and it delivers.

You mentioned that you worked at other studios before working at CCP. How does it feel to be in a studio where you can iterate on a game where normal studios release a game and say this is the box. It failed. Okay. Next game? 

Neil Kaminsky: It’s a different way of working. It’s much more like working in mobile studios, for example, because it’s a living product. That industry is very used to working that way. The UK development scene generally doesn’t work that way. It’s new to a lot of people, and we’re learning as we go, and we’re learning from Bergur, Snorri and everybody. They come in and talk to the team about how we’re going to do this. A big part of it is getting the developers to understand. 

It’s okay to try things out early. Don’t worry about it too much because it’s not the last straw. This is something we can fix, and part of that is trying things and being brave and bold. I think a lot of times when you’re trying to do a boxed product or v1, v2 or v3 in larger studios, you’re trying to hit a target. You’re trying to hit something very specific, and I’ve worked on titles where, between the time you start and the time you finish, the landscape of what you’re trying to accomplish has changed massively. 

You can’t course correct because you have to deliver this thing. There are project schedules. Everything is laid out, the outsourcing companies are going to start in April, and you have to have everything ready. This machine marches on knowing that it’s going to be mowed down by machine gun fire, but it can’t stop, and you’re all locked in step, and you’re all looking at each other and thinking, “This is insane. What are we going to do?” What we can do is stop it, look at each other and say, “Let’s just not do this. Let’s talk about this.” It’s really liberating. A big part of it is getting everybody comfortable with working this way.

EVE Vanguard starts with only one map, right? Are you worried about that at all? Do you think it will get stale quickly?

Neil Kaminsky: That’s what we’re looking at. We’ve gone to, I don’t want to say vanilla like Unreal, but we’re using their toolset massively. We look at the procedural tools. We’re looking at how do we create meaningful content for the player base. It’s that word, meaningful, as opposed to being a content treadmill. As long as the fans feel like they’re having a meaningful experience and they’re getting the things they need out of it. 

That’s our main focus, so if we can do that with one map, fine. If we have to take that map and then change it and rearrange it, especially for the crash site. We can take a lot of that junk, and you won’t even know it. You’re building a library of assets that we’re going to use in the next map, in the next map, and so on. We have to be smart about this because we’re a small development team. We use a lot of techniques like photogrammetry, but that doesn’t mean we don’t allow people to go out and sculpt things themselves. It’s whatever tool works best and is the right tool for the job. 

Okay. Now, just you personally, what are you excited about with EVE Vanguard?

Neil Kaminsky: My background is in production design, like industrial engineering. The making it real aspect is what excites me. I’ve worked on a lot of shooters in my career. To finally get to be an art director on one and focus on it and say, let’s make this as real as possible. Let’s make everybody care about it and feel it. There’s also that one element where you’re breaking your own rules with the okay, but of all the implications, that’s where we’re going to Hollywood. The reality for most people outside the United States is that they’ve never used a gun before. 

We experience the real world all the time, so we know what the real world looks like, but when it comes to shooting guns, we can’t deliver against reality because people have never done it before. In that case, we’re giving you your expectation of reality, and that’s Hollywood. In the case of guns, we turn it up to 11 and make people feel like they’re firing a gun because I’ve done it, and it’s pretty scary. It’s overwhelming as an experience. You hit the thing, and you fight. You don’t get that great big jet of debris coming out of the ground.

There’s a little puff of smoke, and you go, “Oh, this is underwhelming. I don’t want to be on the receiving end of that, but it’s pretty underwhelming. I was working on a title where we just went completely crazy with the visual effects, and there’s a certain element of DNA from that in our VFX. So it’s a lot of fun.

It’s been fun chatting.

Neil Kaminsky: Thank you, you too.