The way that dating works seems to change every generation. Gone are the days of asking for a cute stranger's number, calling them up on their landline and asking them to meet you at the local diner for a burger and a milkshake. Nowadays, the dating world is a minefield of apps, sliding into DMs, playing it cool and “talking” for months before officially being in a Relationship.

Navigating this rugged terrain isn’t easy for anyone, so men have recently been opening up on Reddit about the most frustrating issues they’ve encountered while trying to date. From misunderstandings to ever-changing preferences from Women, we’ve gathered some of their most popular replies below. Enjoy scrolling through, whether you’re still in the dating pool or not, and keep reading to find a conversation with dating and relationships coach Rachel New!

#1

Only issue I've had is in gauging how quickly to escalate. Some women seem to lose interest if you move too slow, others get turned off if you push too quickly. Online dating really exaggerates this because you can't get feedback from body language during the conversation.

Image credits: WakeoftheStorm

#2

Modern dating is the most frustrating thing I've come across in modern dating.

Specifically how most people my age (20's) simply aren't trying to engage romantically outside of the s****y dating apps... and even if they do, the expectations are already so inflated by said apps it just becomes a frustrating ordeal for both parties.

Image credits: A-Red-Guitar-Pick

#3

How often women ghost. I don't much care about getting rejected, sure it sucks but it's an expectation we have going into dating, it's going to happen quite a lot. But for the love of god, reject me in any way except for ghosting.

At least if I get blocked, or insulted, or politely put down, I know the other person's intentions and can move on with my life. If I'm ghosted out of the blue, I have no way of knowing if the other person has moved on, or is just too busy to contact me, or is playing hard to get. I'd take getting directly rejected 100 times over the ambiguity of getting ghosted by someone I was interested in.

Edit: obviously ghosting is acceptable if the other person doesn't take no for an answer or otherwise makes you uncomfortable.

Image credits: Splaaaty

To learn more about the difficulties that men encounter when dating today, we reached out to dating and relationships coach Rachel New, who was kind enough to share her thoughts with Bored Panda.

First, Rachel noted that not knowing what the “rules” are is a common frustration for not only heterosexual men, but heterosexual women as well. "These men complain that they don’t know whether to take it slow (at both the messaging stage and moving the dates along to intimacy) and that women expect them to read their minds," the expert explained.

"And some of these women worry that they will come across as too keen if they want to meet up rather than message a lot, or that the man will think they aren’t interested if they take longer to be ready to meet or don’t want to kiss on a first date," Rachel says.

"Men are also expected to take the initiative to arrange the date, but can be criticized for 'taking over' or being too controlling or assertive," she continued. "And when they arrange the date, often the woman will not like what he has planned, particularly if it involves food."

#4

Trust me, men do NOT like it when women (like those your husband is friends with) play “hard to get.” It’s degrading, dehumanizing, and makes us feel like creeps. Women who act this way are really not worth our time and effort, anyway.

Image credits: ArmariumEspata

#5

That women want you to approach them but are unapproachable at the same time.

Image credits: ___shadow_wolf__

#6

I have a playstation if I want to play games. If I'm into you, I'll tell you.

Image credits: Screambloodyleprosy

The dating expert also noted that finding a partner today might be even harder than it was in the past. "These expectations for men to have a good income, take the lead, and be physically attractive have been around for centuries, but now there is an added desire for men to be confident and strong and comfortable with emotions and being vulnerable!" Rachel shared.

While there are some men that get a lot of attention on dating apps without much effort, that's not the case for everyone. "There is another subset of men that never get any matches or messages, partly because of the superficial nature of dating apps that are so focused on appearance," Rachel noted. "Research shows that men that have more to offer (skills of emotional connection, humor, empathy, listening skills, ability to take advice and change their views or behavior, and so on) will do better meeting people in real life."

#7

Girls think that I am supposed to chase them. Jump through hoops to gain their approval. Nope. I match your energy and if you don't reciprocate I have zero patience for it. If they were genuinely interested they would put in tons more effort.

Image credits: habbo311

#8

From my perspective as a man, it is extremely difficult to know what a woman wants. So the chase is off the table because it is an extreme gamble of either successful getting a date or being labelled a creep. The chase should not be a thing because, as a guy, I will play it better safe than sorry. Communication is necessary. Don't make it harder by expecting me to understand vague hints. Direct communication is the best way to get what you want.

My gripe with dating apps is that a majority of women's profiles just have their snapchat or Instagram handle, and they expect me to text them on those apps. Why the heck should I have to use another app's texting feature when one exists on the dating app?

Image credits: Zurg0Thrax

#9

The god-awful grueling scrutiny. Whatever happened to just two people having fun? Instead, you turn a date into a job interview nightmare with a bunch of gotcha questions and a 5-year plan.

Image credits: anon

But not everything about modern dating has made men's lives more difficult. "On the other hand, dating apps do make it easier for men to approach women without having to worry that they’re harassing them," Rachel says. "If you’re at the gym, at work or in a bar or café, it’s difficult to know whether talking to a woman is appropriate or an invasion of privacy, and of course, you don’t know if the woman is open to dating. (This applies to all genders and orientations, of course – but for heterosexual men, there is another layer of concern about safety and privilege.)"

#10

I went out with a woman a few times and enjoyed her company. She told me she was casually seeing a few guys. So I backed off. That’s not my thing. She later reached out again and expressed that she considered herself “old school” and that I needed to pursue her if I wanted it to happen. I told her that I don’t chase women. Especially one that is not giving me her undivided attention. I’m not going to compete for her affection, I’d rather be alone.

Image credits: anon

#11

Women who show romantic interest and we grow closer together, but then when I try and take things to the next level, they pull back and say that they’re not emotionally ready to be in a relationship only to turn around and date someone else.

Image credits: anon

#12

Dinner-view culture and expectations.

Honestly, the ROI isn’t there. The issue is not the price. It’s the return. It’s emptying to watch someone pic over an expensive dish and making small talk.

I would rather pay for a ticketed event, go to a museum, or hike, bike, kayak, golf, volunteer, run a race, etc. I know that I’m going to enjoy those things. I see a lot of women doing those things happily as well. Unfortunately, I have felt and been told (in a round about way and directly) that companionship is earned.

A genuine connection is rare and you’re less likely to find it over a “dinner-view” (talking about divorces, dating broken divorcees, finances, time with children, etc). Being in my late 40s, it’s important to enjoy my time. I date less frequently and usually it’s a female friend who has “got this really nice friend” when I do.

Image credits: Wide-Expression5880

The dating expert also shared some of the best advice she has for men dating in this modern world. "It’s helpful to understand that we can all be too judgmental about small things because they remind us of something that happened in a previous dating experience or relationship," Rachel says.

"We are vigilant because we want to protect ourselves from getting hurt or from disappointment. So when women say 'Don’t bother messaging me if …' on dating profiles, it sounds very intolerant but actually comes from a place of protection and empowerment: I deserve to be treated well and I’m not taking any risks," she explained.

#13

The more I play into the f**kboy/player archetype, the better things go for me and while I do *like* when things go well for me, I don't like that it's because I embrace behaviors that I've been taught are counterproductive.

Image credits: festival-papi

#14

A lot of my gal pals are in relationships that they're absolutely miserable in (example: she has to lie to her boyfriend to hang out with literally anyone because "she's bi and she could cheat on him with anyone"), but won't leave because it's "better than nothing and they're waiting for someone better to come along". I almost died from the looks alone when I asked if "someone better" was the type of person who went after a woman in a committed relationship...

As for chasing a woman after she turns me down, absolutely not. You all spent the last 10 years drilling into our heads that No Means No and if you say No that's that.

A woman put it best: "Guys don't want to chase, they want to play Tag. You need to chase them too".

Image credits: Slarg232

#15

I learned to avoid women that want a guy to chase them like the plague in middle school. This type of woman isn’t chasing love, she’s chasing anxiety.

It’s really the most toxic and unattractive thing a woman can do. Especially in a world of “no means no” and #metoo.

Image credits: DontTakePeopleSrsly

Rachel also says that talking openly is the healthiest way to avoid these common misunderstandings and frustrations. "If you’re not sure whether you’re going too fast or slow, just ask 'What pace works best for you? I’ve found in the past that people vary in what they feel comfortable with, so it would be helpful for you to tell me if I’m going too slowly or quickly,'" the expert suggests. "It’s important that this is two-way: a woman who is in a good place for healthy dating will ask you back: 'What works best for you?'"

#16

Barrier to entry is quite high, but also 'the bar is on the floor'. It makes me feel like there's something wrong with me, if the minimum standards are so low, but I still can't get a date.

Image credits: MikeArrow

#17

Gotta say the most frustrating thing we've seen lately is the judgement and worrying about what others think. Whether it be family, friends, etc. Whatever happened to just being happy.

Image credits: Tokedout01

#18

If we approach it's "not appropriate and being creep even for something as small as Hi".

If we don't approach then "how are you supposed to get into relationship if you don't approach".

If we approach a women we know then they don't put the equal efforts and love the runner chaser dynamic.

If a women is interested in me then she won't put any efforts other than eye contact and later complain I don't get hints

and most of the women around me can't even hold conversations, others are just committed and not available.

Image credits: Educational_Fig_2213

Rachel shared that she often discusses with her straight male clients the need to understand what might be driving the expectations of the other person. "Expecting someone to read your mind is unrealistic and often comes from an unmet need for a responsive caregiver," she noted.

"As very young infants, we need our caregivers to know when we’re hungry, tired, too hot or cold or distressed, and to respond appropriately. We can only cry at that stage, so we need them to read our minds. If we experience that responsiveness and attunement as young infants, we can move onto more emotionally mature developmental stages where we can simply request what we need and not feel wounded when people don’t always 'get' us immediately," Rachel explained.

#19

Generally I feel like the bad guy and that I'm under the microscope being judged under the umbrella of "ugh, men". It's so assumed that I'm like that that I cannot do anything right. In general my goals with dating are to find a person I like, connect with and get into a long term commitment. I don't do ONS, I don't like people coming into my home really. But here's the experience, you meet a girl, you invite her out quickly. That's too quick and you're a man so you're just trying to get her into bed. So you slow down try to be a bit longer, leave it up to her. Nope that's indecisive, you need to be clear and know what you want. So you go down the middle and take it at a pace you're comfortable with. Nope wrong again you've got to do it at her pace which if faster than your pace is wrong again. You're just expected to get everything right first time. Combine this with actually trying to get a date and especially with online dating you'll never be good enough, ever. It's always going to be "your photos aren't good enough, your bio isn't quite right" so putting the effort in after the 4th or 5th redo is just incredibly frustrating. Generally the standards you're expected to meet vary so rapidly but are hyperspecific, so you cannot meet them.

Image credits: JPK12794

#20

I tend to feel like I’m in a psych ward. You know how talking too much = anxiety, taking not enough = depression? Everything you do is the wrong thing to do.

If I chase when it’s not wanted, I’m seen as obsessed. If I don’t chase when it’s wanted, I’m seen as uninterested. But I am completely unable to tell who wants to be chased and doesn’t want to and asking for clarification is kinda taboo. So it’s kind of a guessing game but if I f**k up, the gossip could spread to future potential partners. So a lot of us lean toward “Better safe than sorry” meaning we don’t ask. But then women think we don’t like them or care about them or whatever. Idk if you can understand how this would drive someone crazy trying to navigate this. I’ve had the most success being detached and only pursuing women who express enough interest in me that it’s distinguishable from friendliness because that takes the guess work out of it.

Image credits: Fragrant-Mousse-6613

#21

Being noticed at all. I often feel invisible. Not even trying to be dramatic. I’ve had a few dates, and two really short term relationships (less than six months) in my seven years of multiple dating apps. And absolutely nothing for the last three years. No decent conversations have materialized these past few years.
Now most of my friends and siblings are married with kids and they all do couples- type things and I’m even more alone as a result. Not implying I’m some super attractive rich person, and certainly not to say I somehow deserve to have dates and romance blah blah, but goddamn it’s frustrating being so invisible to others.

And going out into the real world to talk to folks has gotten me 100% nothing in the last years.

It’s so bad that I am starting to think that maybe meeting that someone special and falling in love is just not something even possible anymore. Like that part of my life is just over now.

Image credits: Burn-The-Villages

"Recognizing when someone needs something (mindreading) from us that we can’t give helps us to decide when to move on from a dating experience or relationship," Rachel added. "Sometimes having an open discussion about their relationship template and expectations can be enough to help them see they need to change, but this needs to be done without criticism, blame or defensiveness."

"Ultimately, good relationship skills such as being able to discussing difficult emotional issues without it escalating are absolutely vital to navigating those early stages of dating, which is why I do a lot of work on those skills with people so they are ready when the right person comes along!" the expert shared.

If you'd like to gain insight into your own relationships or check out Rachel's dating workbook, be sure to visit her website!

#22

All i want is to meet up for a coffee to see if we click then go for a proper date, not make a load of online pen pals.
OLD means it often takes 2+ weeks just to get that coffee

HUGE time sink for almost zero gain.

Image credits: ChampionshipFew7099

#23

Honestly some men have it way easier on the dating front while others like me struggle. Only thing I'd say is that it's a pain to chat with a wall, so much so that I just straight up give up.

If you're not participating in the conversation or even trying to have one, then I have no reason to be on the date.

Side note, dating apps are something there to ruin my mental health, confidence and any self image I've built for myself. Weeks of no matches into straight up ghosting from first hello whenever I do get one. Or then it's a scammer.

I guess in a nutshell, good date would be win-win for both participants, not just one person doing everything and getting "a reward". Going to a bar and getting one night stand or just straight up hiring hooker is easier, if you just wanna get off.

Image credits: anon

#24

Women wanting to be chased, even though they're glaringly, obviously interested in someone.

Not being able to say "our chemistry wasn't there for me" instead gradually ghosting you without an explanation.

Image credits: BDOKlem

#25

Thank God I'm not dating anymore. My problem was the ridiculous double standards out there and the cherry picking of feminist ideals when it was convenient. If you wanted something, you're misogynistic. If you didn't give something they wanted, you weren't chivalrous. If you want sex, you're a f**k boy. If she wanted money, she's just someone who knows her worth, not a gold digger. She is worth everything just because. You gotta prove what you bring for her.

Image credits: anon

#26

I’ll tackle the older end of things, as I am in my 50s.

That saying that women control access to sex and men control access to relationships is absolutely true as you get older. He’s looking for someone to f**k who he might eventually like a relationship with. She’s looking for a relationship with someone who she might eventually f**k.

First dates with women my age turn into financial and relationship history colonoscopies. They want to know details of your financial prospects so they know if you can either keep up or provide and they want to know what they are getting into because they are looking for the guy they hope to be buried next to someday. ON A FIRST DATE. They want to know the deepest and most painful details of why your first marriage failed that only your closest two friends in the world know…ON A FIRST DATE.

Meanwhile, most guys have been there and done that. And we just don’t understand why anyone would want to go through that hell again. We want someone we can laugh with, watch movies with, talk with, snuggle, and f**k. Why ruin that with a serious relationship? We aren’t thinking about long-term relationships yet. If it leads to that, great. But that’s off the table for now and may never be on the table.

It makes for a lot of frustrating first date fails on both sides.

Image credits: RickKassidy

#27

I spent a week talking to you and asked if you’d like to meet and talk more. You went silent.

I moved on to another match. You came back a week later and asked how I was doing.

Are you dumb? Or are men that desperate to talk to a woman online and will forgive ghosting and making me wait on you hand and foot on your “precious” time as if my time isn’t valuable at all.

If you wonder why men don’t respond to you after you’ve made us wait a few days for a simple response, it’s because those are the good ones. We didn’t respond because you made us wait for a f*****g sentence.

Image credits: AaronParan

#28

That women will make rules for men who will make great partners before getting intimate with them but will break those same exact for a random conventionally attractive party dude for no reason.

Image credits: anon

#29

I have learned how to avoid the frustration.

Don’t bother approaching

Especially in our current culture where approaching can easily be seen as harassing, with serious social and legal repercussions.

It is clear that, with some rare exceptions, the vast majority of women don’t want, or even like, men.

According to data from dating apps 95% of women find 80% of men unattractive by every blind survey, and by actual data usage (“swiping”, “liking”, and responding to messages) on dating/social apps such as Tinder, OKCupid, Bumble, Cuddle Comfort, etc.

So, for men that aren’t “high value”, that is to say, model good-looking, rich, and/or famous, the best we can do is enjoy our own lives.

Dive into your career.

Be passionate about your hobbies.

Invest in your own friend groups of men.

Volunteer your time.

Focus on self-care.

Don’t waste your time and energy on pursuing women.

Certainly don’t waste your money, or risk your career, social standing, or reputation.

Remember, if you have to approach them, that is already your answer.

The message in our current culture is clear: If a woman is interested in you she will approach you.

Image credits: Poet_of_Legends

#30

A lot of young women in my generation glorify cheating and have high expectations in what they want in a man but they don't meet those expectations themselves. That's why some of them get an older sugar daddy.

I worked at a predominantly woman dominated workplace for a number of years and some of these younger women will say s**t like they want a man that makes good money however they work a min wage job.

Image credits: SirGanjaSpliffington

#31

It is because gender roles dont hardly exist anymore in the western world so but a LOT of women still want the benefits of gender roles but not the same responsiblities. Like wanting to be pursued when society says the pursuing is harassment, or being treated like a lady but getting all the perks of being a man.

Image credits: Agreeable-Ad5026

#32

Lots of expectations for men, yet not so much accountability when it comes to women. Like nearly every day here, there's some woman asking about how she can wiggle under/past some standard that she might expect from the men she fancies. Just in general a lot of people don't really want to listen to men about issues related to dating, unless it fits some arbitrary norm and isn't slightly controversial or something like that. Even if most of the time men are trying to emulate how they see women talk about this stuff. People just don't seem to factor in that not all guys have the same experience and are not at the same point as other people.

ln general I was sort of burnt out in my teenage years, lots of gals who were not that great of relationship material and I wanted more of a sure thing that the relationship would be stable. It might have cut down on the amount of dates/relationships, but most of the ones I did end up having ended up being healthy.

Image credits: Whappingtime