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[00:00:00] Michael Hawk: Hey, it’s Michael. Let’s jump right into it.

[00:00:03] Griff Griffith: people will look up and they’ll be like, is that a bush growing in the tree?

[00:00:07] 50 feet up? And I’m like, oh, it’s three different species of bushes. And you know what they all have in common? They all make berries. So how do you think they got up there and then, Most people don’t know how, I mean, I’m sure your listeners probably know, but like most people don’t think about this kind of stuff.

[00:00:26] And so I’ll say, I’ll give you a hint. now you introduce this crazy imagery and they’re like, A bird ate the berry and pooped that out. And I’m like, yes. And I’m like, this is what blows me away about plants. I have a degree in plant science. Like I’ll never, ever. Get over plants, like plants will blow.

[00:00:46] I’ll be on my death bed coughing, and I’ll be like, did you know that in photo synthesis? Like I’m stripping out on plants and one of the, they’re sitting there being green. Okay, this is what I, this is what happens to me. they’re sitting there being green. They make a flower, but it’s not just any like, oh, flower.

[00:01:05] It’s it’s a, it’s got an agenda. It’s a certain color for a certain pollinator because of where we’re at on in 2023, we know that the plant might start creating a stronger scent and more nectar when it feels the pollinator land on it, quote unquote feels it knows how to make a smell for this creature.

[00:01:27] This plant knows that Bumblebee exists. This plant knows that. Butterfly exist. This plant, this stinky flower, knows that carrion fly exists. How does it know? How does it know? And then so it’s talking to their animal. Meanwhile, it’s getting its nutrients in water from another creature unrelated to it. A fungi.

[00:01:49] A fungi. How did they work that strategy out where they’re trading stuff? Okay, so now the plant, so the plant is not just this green thing stuck in the ground. This is a very social organism. Okay? And then it gets deeper. It makes a berry. You’re like, oh yeah, cool. Berry’s got seeds in it. But a berry also has vitamins in it.

[00:02:08] It’s got nutrition that a healthy bird needs, like the berry could be like a cereal box and could be like, this is what every healthy young bird and boy girl need. And so the birds eat that and it keeps them alive so they could fly around and poop the plants, babies out. How did the plant know? How did the plant know these? And that’s just three. So if you think about that, this is a mind blowing planet, and there’s birds that are in service to the plant that’s in service to the birds that’s flying around. it’s mind blowing.

[00:02:46] Michael Hawk: That voice you just heard is Griff Griffith. He’s the former host of animal planet’s wild jobs, current spokesperson for redwoods rising. And he’s a volunteer for jumpstart nature. Griff has dedicated his career to honing his expertise and effectively communicating and motivating people to care about the environment.

[00:03:04] From the youth, he led it, the California conservation Corps. Two people he’s engaged with at state parks to 4 million people that watch his videos on Tik TOK. He’s also been on CNN, NBC nightly news, Kelly Clarkson show, and much more. So he knows a thing or two about engaging people. And if you’re like me, you care for nature and you want to share that love of nature with others.

[00:03:25] So today Griff shares his secrets to success in ways that can work for anyone, regardless of your personality or your approach. One of Griff’s messages is that you have to always make things relevant to your audience. So we’re going to try to do that today by including lots of specific examples, including stories like you just heard.

[00:03:43] Discussions about goose pin trees. You might be like what? Goose pin? Yeah, like goose, like the honking bird. You’ll hear in a moment. Invasive clams and the magic of photosynthesis.

[00:03:54] You’ll learn about analyzing an audience, being authentic, dealing with doubters and much, much more. So, if you talk about nature with your family and friends, lead trips or walks, or just want to talk nature on Tik TOK or Instagram, we’ve got you covered. So without further delay Griff Griffith.

[00:04:11] Michael Hawk: Good morning, Griff. Good to see you again.

[00:04:13] Griff Griffith: Good morning. Super happy to be here.

[00:04:16] Michael Hawk: , so many people want to affect change in support of the environment, either with their friends or family or in their community. And you have so many videos going viral right now talking about crazy things like hollow redwood trees or redwood forests that like it’s how I never knew that there were 3 million people interested in that, but that’s what’s happening for you.

[00:04:37] So how

[00:04:38] Griff Griffith: 4 million, even now, 4 million people interested in hollow redwood trees. I love it. So encouraging.

[00:04:44] Michael Hawk: So how do you do it? What do you attribute your success in being able to reach so many people? So,

[00:04:49] Griff Griffith: talk about what I know and I talk about what I’m passionate about, and I talk about what I’m excited about my big sister says that I’ve been interested in the same things for as long as she can remember, and I’ve always been really passionate about quote unquote nature and wildlife and plants.

[00:05:08] And we have some of the most amazing ecosystems in California within walking distance, crawling distance from my house. , I live right next to the dunes forest, right next to the beach, right next to the dunes, right next to the redwoods, right next to the river. And so everywhere I go is super inspiring.

[00:05:27] So I’m just like, whenever I go outside, I’m on this awe inspired high, and then I’m around all these tourists who have questions about it. And so I have permission to talk about what I love to talk about all the time, and that is extremely invigorating.

[00:05:43] Michael Hawk: So I’m interested in finding out how people can take the lessons you’ve learned. It sounds like you have some inherent advantages though, because you are in crawling distance to some of the best places on earth.

[00:05:54] Griff Griffith: I do, I have, that’s just my personality type. other people can get, super impassioned, is that the right word? by things that are closer to home. Like I tell people, I didn’t fall in love with nature in a area with lots of like natural space. I fell in love with nature in an urban trailer park.

[00:06:13] Michael Hawk: Wow. So what was it without going on too far, too big of a tangent. What was it in that urban trailer park that got you?

[00:06:21] Griff Griffith: , back when my head was so big that, you know, I had to hold someone’s hands to go down the stairs. So I was probably like three or four. My grandma lived in this mobile home park and she took me down the steps from her mobile home. And the mobile home park was very paved.

[00:06:34] Very paved. there was, it was pretty much set on asphalt. And then you have this like little square that was like where the earth had been lighted that was behind your trailer. And my grandma walked me down the stairs holding her hands. So I was like three or four. And she got to the bottom and she looks at me and she said, I can call toads.

[00:06:51] And I was like, whoa, I believed her. Okay. I was like, oh, let’s see. And she did this like weird yodel, ribbit thing and told me to go, turn over this broken pot. And I did. And there was a toad in there and I picked it up, peed all over my hands. And I’ve been in love with wildlife ever since. Super curious.

[00:07:07] And that’s what it is. I’m constantly curious and there is, I can’t remember who said it, but someone said that ecology is not rocket science. It’s way, way harder. So like I’m constantly learning new stuff, so I’m in a perpetual state of curiosity and learning, and I think that’s a good place to be if you want other people to, care about the earth the way that you do.

[00:07:31] Michael Hawk: The whole premise for our discussion today is I see it all the time and the people I interact with through my volunteering or even online on social media,

[00:07:38] And I see it all over the place on your social media. People are constantly asking you, how can I do this? What can I do? So we’re already getting into that discussion right now.

[00:07:47] and maybe before we get into to specific cases or specific audiences, I know you have some core principles that you like to follow. And you just mentioned one, curiosity. you know what else do you take to the table when you are looking to engage people and help to steer them down a more meaningful path to help nature?

[00:08:08] Griff Griffith: I like first try to remind myself why I’m talking to them about this in the first place. And it’s because I love nature, , and I care about it. And so I want to come from that place and I want them to care about it too. And I want them to find it relevant. So relevancy is a big thing.

[00:08:25] Like we don’t want to berate people. We don’t want to like, yeah, we don’t wanna be like, you should do this because it’s the rules.

[00:08:31] there is a time to do that and there is a place for that, but not, but only if you’re like, In that activist world, if you’re just someone who loves nature and you want to spread it to people, you have to realize that, you gotta give the people what they want. So you gotta be relevant.

[00:08:46] So you should always make sure your message is relevant, relates to the person as much as possible. If you’re trying to impress somebody, how smart you are, when you’re talking about the environment, you’re not spreading the love and caring, as much as you think you are.

[00:09:00] You really wanna make sure that all your language is accessible using the common language, and you wanna show passion. And another thing is there’s the attention economy right now. So each generation is so different now, like younger people have seen so many videos and heard so many messages that if they’re not an active participant, they may not stay engaged. So when you are talking to people, especially younger people, but also older people, you wanna make sure that you are not just lecturing, that you’re stopping and asking questions or you’re asking ’em if they can relate or you have something for them to involve themselves in.

[00:09:34] So that’s really important. And also, instead of throwing a bunch of facts at people being like, this is why you should care about birds is because cats are killing ’em in windows straight. all that’s important information. But if you could package that in a story, especially a story about your own journey, like I had this outdoor cat, it killed so many birds and I felt bad about So I realized that maybe my next cat should be indoor cat. like telling stories about where you learned the hard way. Like just whenever we talk about the environment, we should never do.

[00:10:02] From a top of pedestal, we should always be right in there relevant and accessible with people because we need folks to care about biodiversity crisis. We need folks to become super curious and have a relationship with nature and, beating them into that is not going to work. So you have to make them want to participate.

[00:10:23] Michael Hawk: There’s so much to unpack from what you just said there. you were saying don’t lecture.

[00:10:27] and I was thinking, yousomebody told me once, the only people that like to be told what to do are the people who are already doing it.

[00:10:35] Griff Griffith: Yeah.

[00:10:36] Michael Hawk: that really resonates with me. So, I can think about many instances in my own life where somebody told me to do something and I probably on one level knew what they were telling me was the right thing.

[00:10:46] But it’s just like your gut reaction is you’re not telling me what to do. so, so that’s a, it’s really interesting human psychology thing there.

[00:10:55] and I was gonna say the stories, I think. You’re modeling something in the example you gave. So you gave an example of like maybe you used to have an outdoor cat and you learned your lesson.

[00:11:06] And the two things there, , is you’re showing that you are fallible. , you didn’t have all of the answers your whole life, that you were on a journey, and then you’re also engaging empathy from other people.

[00:11:18] Griff Griffith: yes. I have made some cringy mistakes in my life around wildlife. Like when I was a little kid, everything I found in nature came home with me. And so, and I had a little tiny suburban backyard with a pond and a giant cage in it where lots of things got thrown in together and everything made it into the pond, including flounders and stuff that I caught in the bay.

[00:11:39] And almost all those things met their horrible death eventually. but I didn’t know better. I was just so curious about wildlife and I wanted to bring them home. And I eventually learned that wasn’t cool. do I prevent other people from doing that? Kind of one of the things that I did in state parks was I bought a bunch of nets and a bunch of clear buckets, and I invite families to come catch things in the creek and put ’em in the bucket and look at them, and then let ’em go.

[00:12:02] And I think that is a wonderful way to help people up the environmental ladder. That’s what did it for me. I just, Shouldn’t have taken all the adults in my life. Shouldn’t let me take everything home. I’m glad they did though, cause it was really interesting. But at the same time, it wasn’t good for those species.

[00:12:17] And those creeks that I caught, all those stickleback and everything else out of, most of them are under pavement now. So the area that I grew up in has been developed. Population is tripled in size and a lot of those things are gone, but still looking at them, putting them back. If you know what lives in the creek, if kids know what lives in the creek, they’re more likely to protect it.

[00:12:37] And that’s why I was so disturbed when I saw, my creek’s getting put underground. That has a lot to do with why I’m doing restoration all through my whole entire adult

[00:12:48] Michael Hawk: Let’s say you were to encounter a group or it could be a family or something like that along one of these creeks, unfortunately the ones that probably come to your mind don’t exist anymore, but some other creek and they are playing in the creek, they’re actively doing something.

[00:13:03] How would you then engage that group to ensure they’re on the right path and getting the right messages from their experience?

[00:13:12] Griff Griffith: I’d be like, Hey, what’s up? I’m Griff. What did you guys, what are you finding? Oh, interesting. Do you know what that is? That’s a blah blah, blah, blah, blah. They are really good food for baby salmon. And you know what? Our baby salmon need all the food they can get because they’re an endangered species. so you guys are gonna leave these in here for Sammy Snacks, right?

[00:13:32] Cool. That’s how I do it.

[00:13:36] Michael Hawk: Sammy snacks. So, so maybe Sammy Snacks wouldn’t, resonate with a group of 30 somethings, but

[00:13:43] Griff Griffith: no, that was, I was thinking fam, I was thinking family.

[00:13:45]

[00:13:46] Michael Hawk: you’ve been an environmental educator, a nature interpreter in one form or another for a long time, and you’ve become quite skilled at being able to look at an audience, whether, whether it’s online, in person, outdoors, in the parking lot, whatever, and assess the audience and figure out, how do I craft my message for this audience?

[00:14:07] Can you walk me through how you do that? when you have an audience, informal or formal, expected or unexpected, how do you decide your approach?

[00:14:17]

[00:14:18] Griff Griffith: I ask questions, so I. Come in looking happy and glad to see them. You’re happy to see them, you’re happy they’re out here. looking at nature cuz these people, like as a conservationist, I look at these people if they’re already outdoors or meeting you someplace, outdoors or whatever, they’re already interested in the outdoors, so, In a sense, you’re talking to the choir, but sometimes the choir needs to learn the lyrics to a new song. And this is the willing participants here. So you want to ask them where they’re from, why they’re here. Just try to get some sense of what might be most relevant for them, like what, how you could tailor the messaging of your place.

[00:14:56] So just to get, give you a really specific example, like when I’m in the redwoods and I walk and I’m in uniform and I walk up on a group of people and I look at them and I immediately start to make observations about them that could help me be more relevant to them. So their age, of course, because the way you would talk to kids is completely different than how you talk to a group of older people.

[00:15:17] But families love it when you. Incorporate stuff that kids are gonna understand. So that’s the first thing is you just try to get some demographic information by observing to try to just assume what might be relevant, but be prepared to be wrong. And then if you just come with respect, then you don’t have to worry about it.

[00:15:35] And you could figure out like what they’re interested in and then just try to, if you have the knowledge in the background, make it relevant to them. depending on the age group, you might wanna gamify whatever you’re doing. So if you have a bunch of junior high kids,or even fourth grade up, you might wanna gamify it.

[00:15:49] And if you’re in nature, so you can do that through one of your app tools. if people have phones that is, iNaturalist or whatever, or you could come with a scavenger hunt or you could teach them a couple plants and then be like, let’s see how many more we can find down the trail. But you try to make it relevant to what whatever group.

[00:16:04] If it’s an older intellectual group that already obviously has a background, then find out what they know and try to make connections to the place and make it relevant. But whatever your audience is, you wanna make sure that it’s engaging. So you want it to be fun for them. You want it to be an experience for them.

[00:16:23] You want them to get more curious because you don’t want this experience to be about you. You want the experience to be about building them up to be more curious. So they’ll go on and learn more long after they forgot who you were. So you just wanna impart on them this curiosity that will keep them going when you’re part of the past.

[00:16:45] Michael Hawk: I think those are all good thoughts and the one that I think resonates most with me is asking questions. Try to validate those assumptions. we’ve talked about some really good approaches and principles already, and I’m thinking that we can dive into some very specific scenarios to make it more real for people. and we’re talking about relevancy. Let’s make it more relevant to anyone listening. And one of the things that I see a lot on your social media is people ask you, they say, I love what you’re doing, Griff how can I do it too?

[00:17:16] And if we take them literally for a moment, and let’s say they want to create some social media videos to reach their people, their friends, their family, their followers, how would they start? What’s the process? And you could maybe walk through your hollow redwood tree viral video as an example.

[00:17:32] Griff Griffith: Yeah. Anybody who wants to do that, please do that. The more repetition, the more people run across conservation videos, the better. And it’s the same thing as if you were meeting a group of people in public, to take ’em for a walk through the redwoods or whatever you wanna talk about what you’re most passionate about.

[00:17:50] So with the current video that’s going viral, it’s on goose pen trees, which are really old redwood trees that have been through many fires. So that the fire was able to penetrate somewhere on the redwoods thick, almost sapless bark. That’s not extremely flammable, but it’s burned through there.

[00:18:08] And over this long process, it’s hollowed out and it looks like this big creepy tree that a ferry would fly out of. And. People love the way it looks. So it’s, just the hollow goose pen tree by itself is a great story background. But I love the story for so many reasons, because people formed these, it was the, in this case where I live now, it was the Tolowa people whose frequent fires, or the Yurok people whose frequent fires created these things.

[00:18:34] So that’s a really interesting story about how it was created. And then also the tree’s hollow, but still alive. So you can look up and you could show people the leaves up there. It’s still alive. there’s so many interesting things about just how this tree formed and the fact that it’s hundreds and hundreds of years old because usually if it’s big enough to be like a hollow room inside, we got 115 fourth graders in a hollow tree one time.

[00:18:54] Seriously. So it’s like these things can become huge. So right there it’s captivating. Like your, what you’re talking about is captivating, but then you tell people that grizzly bears used to live in those and grizzly bears are now extinct in California. So there’s another story. And the story about the last grizzly bear Gideon killed in California’s.

[00:19:13] Fascinating. And the one on our flag monarch is fascinating. Those are fascinating stories. So there’s so many fascinating stories tied to this. And then there’s bats in there at night, there’s or bats in there during the day, and there’s vox of Swifts at night. And so they’re, you have these birds that are toing into this hollow tree.

[00:19:30] Wow. Bats are flying out and they’re doing wing high fives. there’s so much imagery here. There’s such a great story around this one hollow tree, and you could tell so many different versions of it. And so that’s if you do conservation, social media, you want to do it about what you’re passionate in, because there’s so many people on social media Now, if you hashtag it right and Do the captions on there, the algorithm is gonna send your video to people who are interested in that subject.

[00:19:57] You’re like, oh, that’s preaching to the choir. But that’s okay because the choir will support your video and they’ll help you get better at it. And then pretty soon it’ll get put on the for you page or it’ll get into some general stream. And then you could attract a bunch of people who maybe find hollow trees or giant trees.

[00:20:14] really interesting. there’s niches for everything, and that’s why you, if you do social media folks, don’t try to be me. Don’t try to be someone else. Double down on what you’re already good at, and you will eventually find your audience and they will be grateful for your content. And then you can also convert some people who, maybe would not have gotten interested in a climate change, content creator, but are super happy to hear the big tree, hollow tree person, series.

[00:20:38] So just doubling down on what and on, on what you’re, I’m passionate about is step one. Step two is take everything frivolous out of your videos. Just get right to it. No long introductions, nothing. Just get right to it. Tell people what they came here for. Make the video about them. Like really think about your audience and give people what they want, as long as it’s factual, but make it edutaining.

[00:20:59] a lot of people aren’t gonna listen to some boring stuff cuz they have billions of options, so you can’t be boring. you gotta be, you gotta take your, you gotta be, have a lot of consideration for your listeners’ time.

[00:21:11] Michael Hawk: You mentioned two steps and backing up to the algorithm, I think we can think of the algorithm as almost like a multi-step function. Just to maybe put, an additional point to what you said, the first goal is to get people seeing the video, even if it’s the choir, and then by making it engaging.

[00:21:30] Griff Griffith: So they look at it, they watch it through, and if those metrics are good, then the algorithm executes on the second step and that’s showing it to even more people getting beyond the choir. So is that roughly correct? Yes. And usually the way to make it more interesting is just, is to really just double down on being yourself. don’t try to be someone else. Don’t try to be the, the nature documentary person that you grew up watching. just really be yourself and you’ll eventually find your own audience.

[00:21:55] And you might find out that social media is not the way that you’re gonna be helpful. And that’s fine too, because there’s a million zillion opportunities to help, conserve, preserve and restore nature and species.

[00:22:08] Michael Hawk: , you mentioned like hashtagging it well h how do you go about hashtagging your videos?

[00:22:13] Griff Griffith: you don’t wanna overdo it cause they’ll think that you’re spam. So you don’t wanna have like more than five or six. Like more is not better when it comes to that. But ultimately trying to game the algorithm is not absolutely necessary if your quality of your videos are good, if they’re engaging, if they’re fun. And I think that what I’m finding, I don’t have any studies to back this up or anything, I. But I think the reason why I’m having so much success on social media and have in several different forms since I got on social media and I was, I got dragged onto social media kicking and screaming by the youth I used to work with in the California Conservation Corps.

[00:22:50] And then one of our first videos went viral. And that’s how I’ve been stuck on social media since. But it’s with social media, I just have found that it’s a great way to get information out about conservation. It’s a great way to help people move up the ladder of environmental care, as you put it.

[00:23:05] it’s very effective. And so I’ve learned that I can’t turn my back on it, but what I wanna warn people against is, worshiping the algorithm because the algorithms are designed so that you can’t game them. So if you put too much energy into that, it’s gonna waste your time. So I’ll just tell you. The way to, besides just making good quality videos, which is ultimately the number one concern you should have if you’re trying to get your conservation message to as many people as possible. The other one is engage with your followers. So if people comment at least like their comment or acknowledge that you saw it, respond to the ones that are personal to you.

[00:23:42] don’t feed the trolls, ignore the trolls. Angst does increase the, algorithm. So get into a fight with someone will get more people to see. But I am, that’s not me. I usually, if it’s not a helpful, if it’s not contributing to conversation, I usually ignore it. So I don’t, that’s not how I want to game the algorithm.

[00:23:59] I just wanna make quality videos. I wanna acknowledge people who are participating. I wanna answer questions and if you do that, You’ll get rewarded. I don’t post every day. I post like once or twice a week. I think about my videos before I make them, but I don’t think about them so much or script them because I have found out that when I’m doing something too mechanical, I lose the freshness, the zeal.

[00:24:20] So you just basically want to speak from your heart. So you gotta know your subject really well. You should read a lot about it before you talk about it. You should. And then you should admit that you’re not the expert, especially if you’re talking about science, because it’s unfolding all the time.

[00:24:32] So if you marry yourself to one concept and then a new study comes out and you’re wrong, you don’t wanna be all well, and defend yourself. You wanna let people know that you’re working progress just like they are. You’re a guide, not an expert, and you’re having fun learning about this, and you want them to go along with you.

[00:24:47] that’s where I’m coming from.

[00:24:49] Michael Hawk: And to bounce off of that, I found in the course of doing a number of interviews for Nature’s Archive, that it’s a, it can be a difficult tightrope to walk when you recognize that some of the things that, that we talk about there are exceptions. To the rules. There may be cases that aren’t known, about a given habitat or the way a certain species lives or something like that.

[00:25:13] And making a short social media video, you’re gonna have to gloss over all the exceptions and all the corner cases and things like that. So how do you become comfortable with just that fact? Because I, I noticed that some of the professionals, some of the academics can’t do it. They have to explain all of the exceptions and all of the

[00:25:32] Griff Griffith: Oh yeah.

[00:25:33] Michael Hawk: maybe a little bit different.

[00:25:34] Griff Griffith: You have to accept that your three minute video on fire ecology is going to be a gross simplification and generalization of a. Completely complex topic and you have to let people know that you have to give people resources of places to go. Just be like, I just skimmed over. there’s a lot of factors that I didn’t mention or this depends on the area that you’re at.

[00:25:58] Because just in California, the fire regimes and stuff that are, that the native people, Yurok or Tolowa, Karuk, whoever Wailaki practiced in this area and shaped these ecosystems and these habitats is different than what the Chumash were doing in Southern California. So you can’t apply a fire regime recipe in Chaparral habitat that you could in a redwood habitat.

[00:26:26] And people have known that for thousands of years until this place got colonized, . So now we’re relearning that. So when you do a three minute video about fire ecology, this isn’t a new science. This is. Traditional ecological knowledge on this goes back to the time immemorial, and then it’s been interrupted and then, prescribe fires and culture burns the way they’re applied can’t be generalized.

[00:26:49] So how do you do three mini video about that? You explain that things are different everywhere, and if you want more information, go to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:26:56] Michael Hawk: Yeah, and when we start talking about habitats and if a question comes up about, why is it different here than, say, in Oregon or, some other state, it’s always interesting to again, make it relevant and say,and this isn’t how I would word it, but just the spirit of how I would word it, is, things like state boundaries.

[00:27:12] Very recent and nature doesn’t adhere, to political boundaries. So we have to stop thinking in those terms in term, like California wildfires really consist of, 12 different fire regimes. It’s not one, so the moment that becomes a trigger, you can say next time you hear somebody refer to something with nature relevant to a state, that should be maybe a yellow flag.

[00:27:39] . Maybe there’s more to the story than

[00:27:41] Griff Griffith: There’s always more to the story. , on my tombstone,I want it,it chiseled with a hand chisel. I wish it were that simple, because that’s like my whole entire life. Whenever people bring things up to me and they’re like, no, it’s like this, blah, blah, blah. And I’m just like, honestly, not to be mean, not to be dismissive, but gosh, I wish it were that simple.

[00:28:01] I really do. And especially when it comes to like fire ecology and stuff, I wish it were simple. I wish I wasn’t about to confuse you even more with my answer. a lot of times as someone who’s doing videos or talking to people, like sometimes I’m fully aware that the answer I give is just going to confuse them even more.

[00:28:17] And so having some resources in mind that are very good for beginners is a lifesaver. For example, when I talk about native plants, I got a million resources for someone, and. And I’m like, go to homegrown national park.org to find out the plants you are gonna plant in your area and why you should do it.

[00:28:36] Thank you. Homegrown National Park. when people are like, what do I do with this injured wildlife? Like now thank goodness I could be like, go to animal help now.org A H now.org. Download the app to your phone. Like that way they can explore at their own rate. And so if you did confuse them by saying oh, you can pick the baby up and put it back in its nest if it doesn’t have any feathers and cuz the parents can’t smell you.

[00:28:59] And that’s that, that’s not what I heard. I heard the mom was going to eat its baby if I touched it. I’m like, no, you can eat garlic pizza and lick that baby bird and put it back in the nest and the mom will still feed it.

[00:29:08] Michael Hawk: That makes it

[00:29:09] memorable

[00:29:10] Griff Griffith: yes,

[00:29:11] Michael Hawk: and probably relevant to the, garlic pizza eaters too.

[00:29:14] Griff Griffith: Oh yeah, yeah.

[00:29:15] They got pizza boxes in their trash can right now. So it’s you want to be relevant, you want to give really simple resources. And some places have made that super easy for us. So have them ready. Have them ready?

[00:29:27] Michael Hawk: something I’m detecting as well here, and, and maybe I’m putting my own personal lens too much into what you’re talking about, so, you’ve been advocating that, talk about things you’re passionate about, things you know about. I’ve sometimes had a ton of passion about things that I don’t know much about, but I want to learn more.

[00:29:47] And back before social media, , in a couple different worlds, I’ve had hobbies in, I started a four beginners column, a written column. So I had the benefit of being able to say, yeah, I’m not an expert. I’m a beginner too. I’m writing this with other beginners in mind, and let’s go on a journey together and learn about this thing.

[00:30:08] And

[00:30:09] Griff Griffith: wish more people would do that.

[00:30:10] Michael Hawk: and that’s a perfectly viable way to start videos if you’re just getting into this.

[00:30:15] Griff Griffith: And there’s a lot of people who are super introverted that don’t want to do videos and don’t wanna put themselves out there like that. They’re more comfortable laying back in the cuts. And having those people along on one of your social media journeys will be helpful because they might know a lot about the subject and would rather you talk about it.

[00:30:31] So they’ll comment in there. So say like I’m really interested in tide pools and I just moved next to the beach and I don’t know what half these things are, but I’m gonna go out and find them and I’m gonna try to figure them out. If if you have a way I can learn about this p put this in the resources and make it that engaging.

[00:30:47] Cuz there’ll be a lot of people who want to participate. People wanna participate, people do wanna scroll and get lost in blah blah, blah. I get it on social media and. Other people wanna participate. So one of the, if you’re teaching like say like on TikTok or something, or Instagram, if you’re teaching and you want people to go along with you, make sure you say that and then hashtag it.

[00:31:09] Learn on TikTok or something like that, because other people search for that. I put, that’s one of the hashtags that I use all the time and people wanna learn with you so you don’t have to be an expert. In fact, there’s so few experts anymore, Michael. the way that science has specialized, like there’s no way you’re ever gonna be a generalist expert.

[00:31:29] Like people you could study. I used to tell my corps members in the California Conservation Corps this I could study the same square foot of forest floor for the rest of my life and never be right about everything because I could study it. I could look at the bacteria, I could look at the viruses in the soil.

[00:31:49] I could look at all the microbes. I could learn, I could look at all the salamat or walk across it. I could look at all that stuff. And then one bird could fly, take a poop. That poop could land in my square foot, and it would change the chemistry of the soil in that little area and may have a seed in it that now is gonna introduce a new plant.

[00:32:07] And that plant might attract, a animal that’s gonna come and that has some kind of spores on its feet that’s gonna introduce a new fungus into my one foot. It’s never gonna stay the same. You’re never going to be right. So don’t cling to being right. Cling to being a work in progress, a student in progress, and ask people if they wanna go with you, because that’s more real.

[00:32:28] Michael Hawk: , my takeaway from our social media discussion here is don’t overanalyze, don’t work super hard on the algorithm and on engaging with trolls and, all of this sort of thing.

[00:32:41] It’s be yourself, be authentic. Try to engage people more naturally and respectfully and do things you like, because that will be apparent to the viewers.

[00:32:56] Griff Griffith: Yeah. And. It’s really important if don’t get caught up in fights and stuff. You want people to help us conserve natural resources and wildlife and ecosystems and stuff. You want to be welcoming into this, into your spaces and if someone’s gonna be in troll, let ’em be in troll by themselves.

[00:33:14] You don’t have to participate in that.

[00:33:16] Michael Hawk: And that’s a whole other topic too. if you have, say on your Facebook page, somebody’s being a troll and other people are engaging with them,how you moderate that or how you admin that. I don’t think we need to go into that right now unless you have a, any quick tips.

[00:33:31] Griff Griffith: I would just say like, if someone’s being cruel and mean, just block ’em. Cuz you don’t want to create a culture of that on your social media cuz you want people to feel safe to learn. And if you have someone bullying people who are at different education levels, they’re not gonna stick around to learn.

[00:33:48] And it’s more important to have 20 learners than it is to have one know-it-all. it’s better to have one learner than it is to have one know-it-all. I don’t let those people have a platform on my page. If you build a platform, You have a million followers like, and someone else wants to put their message out there real big.

[00:34:07] They don’t have to do it on your platform. They didn’t contribute to this. They’re not your partner collaborator, like they need to go do their own platform. So like you just don’t waste your time with them. We’re trying to save biodiversity. We’re trying to teach people, we’re trying to create a safe, respectful place and if something messes that up, they need to go find another ecosystem to live in.

[00:34:27] Michael Hawk: So I haven’t forgotten. I said we’re gonna go through some example cases and we kinda got stuck on social media here for a moment, which is great because that’s one of the best ways that you can reach people. And one of the ways you’ve been super successful now, a more intimate setting in person, like on a walk, you’re volunteering to lead an Audubon birding trip or, something along those lines.

[00:34:49] there’s a hundred different permutations. how do you engage people there? And I know you have, you love, I’m gonna, I’m just gonna pick a specific example for you. You love to talk about seed dispersal, so like, how might you. Marry these two topics together and really create an engaging experience for people in person.

[00:35:05] Griff Griffith: yes. Engaging. Experience. Experience. You want to give people an experience? I, it’s probably my personality type. I don’t even like standing up and giving talks to classes unless I could turn it into an experience. That’s why I’m not dying to be, speaker at this and speaker that because it’s, I like hands-on.

[00:35:23] I like giving people experiences. And so if you’re taking people for walks, you gotta think how they can, you can give them experience sometimes if you’re a really good storyteller, a really good story is an experience, especially if you’re walking out looking at something. So like where I live in the redwoods, we ha there’s like bazillions of stories to tell, but the people will look up and they’ll be like, is that a bush growing in the tree?

[00:35:48] 50 feet up? And I’m like, oh, it’s three different species of bushes. And you know what they all have in common? They all make berries. So how do you think they got up there and then, Most people don’t know how, I mean, I’m sure your listeners probably know, but like most people don’t think about this kind of stuff.

[00:36:06] And so I’ll say, I’ll give you a hint. now you introduce this crazy imagery and they’re like, A bird ate the berry and pooped that out. And I’m like, yes. And I’m like, this is what blows me away about plants. And this is what, no matter, I have a degree in plant science. Like I’ll never, ever. Get over plants, like plants will blow.

[00:36:28] I’ll be on my death bed coughing, and I’ll be like, did you know that in photo synthesis? Like I’m stripping out on plants and one of the, they’re sitting there being green. Okay, this is what I, this is what happens to me. they’re sitting there being green. They make a flower, but it’s not just any like, oh, flower.

[00:36:48] It’s it’s a, it’s got an agenda. It’s a certain color for a certain pollinator because of where we’re at on in 2023, we know that the plant might start creating a stronger scent and more nectar when it feels the pollinator land on it, quote unquote feels it knows how to make a smell for this creature.

[00:37:09] This plant knows that Bumblebee exists. This plant knows that. Butterfly exist. This plant, this stinky flower, knows that carrion fly exists. How does it know? How does it know? And then so it’s talking to their animal. Meanwhile, it’s getting its nutrients in water from another creature unrelated to it. A fungi.

[00:37:32] A fungi. How did they work that strategy out where they’re trading stuff? Okay, so now the plant, so the plant is not just this green thing stuck in the ground. This is a very social organism. Okay? And then it gets deeper. It makes a berry. You’re like, oh yeah, cool. Berry’s got seeds in it. But a berry also has vitamins in it.

[00:37:51] It’s got nutrition that a healthy bird needs, like the berry could be like a cereal box and could be like, this is what every healthy young bird and boy girl need. And so the birds eat that and it keeps them alive so they could fly around and poop the plants, babies out. How did the plant know? How did the plant know that this bird was gonna fly off?

[00:38:16] That it had a booty that was going to poop these seeds out? How did the plant know these? And that’s just three. So if you think about that, this is a mind blowing planet, and there’s birds that are in service to the plant that’s in service to the birds that’s flying around. it’s mind blowing. So that’s what I talk about.

[00:38:38] I talk about stuff that blows my mind.

[00:38:40] Michael Hawk: So that is, that’s so amazing the way that you did that. It, you even had me like just engrossed

[00:38:49] Griff Griffith: It’s a trip, right?

[00:38:50] Michael Hawk: and I

[00:38:51] Griff Griffith: It’s a trip.

[00:38:51] Michael Hawk: And I think, like for me, like I tend to be very analytical. So we’re talking about, okay, we’re talking about audiences, but then there’s also be yourself.

[00:38:58] And, I’m very analytical and when I think about this, what’s going through my head, just so you know, and maybe if I’m trying to relay this story onto another group of analytical people like,engineers that are out with their company on a walk,as part of a, day away from the office or something like that,I’d be sitting there thinking, and you know what we have in common?

[00:39:20] We have sensory organs, just like plants do. The plant knows about that bee because they can sense it.

[00:39:28] Griff Griffith: Yeah,

[00:39:28] Michael Hawk: plant knows about, these, that fungus, because they can sense it. There’s some kind of chemical pathway that’s being triggered. How different is that from us? we have electrical and chemical sensors.

[00:39:41] That allow us to interact with the world. We just have a, our own egocentric conscious that allows us to be aware of that. I don’t know if a plant does or not, but, making that connection’s, like we really aren’t that different from these trees and these plants that are out there that have figured out how to, live in the world, which just blows my mind.

[00:40:00] Griff Griffith: Yeah. And that it goes back to something like just we don’t know. I. you’ll never, if you’re waiting to be an expert on a subject before you make a video or take people on a walk, you’ll never make a video and take people for a walk because you’ll never be an expert. The it’s ecology, this is, it’s a crazy mystery all around us.

[00:40:20] There’s so many mysteries and so many unknown things, and so many things are learning right now. This is a very exciting time to be alive and to be interested in science. And so, I think that being a good storyteller or knowing your audience, like if they’re engineers or if they’re kids or whatever, and just translating science into something that’s relevant for people, that’s a very special gift.

[00:40:40] And I think the way that you flesh out whether or not you have that gift is doing the things we talked about. And just being yourself, double down on your own personality type, double down on your own interests and